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He did not commit financial fraud. He might have broken a TOS, but bringing up financial fraud is just silly. Honestly, in many jurisdictions (except for the p

by tamcap 9y ago

He did not commit financial fraud. He might have broken a TOS, but bringing up financial fraud is just silly. Honestly, in many jurisdictions (except for the punishment happy ones) being under certain age, ie. 18 or 17 automatically makes you non-persecutable for a lot of the "soft" offenses. So even if you tried to claim opening a PayPal account is a financial fraud, it would likely never stand up in court.

awinter-py 9y ago
Actually an interesting question. If the TOS includes the terms (1) you certify that all information provided to us is accurate (2) if you breach the TOS you must stop using the product and (3) you certify that you are over 18. Then your continued use after age 18 may in fact signify entering a contract, even though you were under 18 when you signed. It also may not. Capacity/consideration/intent to be bound are really tricky in this case.
- prawn 9y ago
  A far better response from PayPal would've been to return the money to Mat, explain the issue to their customer and request that they create a legal account. If every company assumed that every person with a discretion to their name was an undesirable customer, virtually none of us would be customers of any company.
stan_rogers 9y ago
It also makes you an infant and unable to contract for anything other than legal employment and "necessaries" (except with a next friend). Language may change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but the upshot is that an account created while underage would not be legally valid, and transactions for anything other than necessaries become revocable pretty much at will.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  > It also makes you an infant What?! No it doesn't. Infants are under one year of age. An older teenager has much more legal, financial, and criminal self-determination and responsibility than an infant does.
  - Lev1a 9y ago
    There's all kinds of weird and different rules/laws from country to country. For example in my country (Germany): "Minors between 14 and 18 years are sentenced by juvenile justice. An adult between 18 and 21 years may still be sentenced by juvenile justice if considered mentally immature." [0] This also means if the prosecution opens a court case against an individual that was less than 14 years of age at the time the crime was committed the criminal must be immediately dismissed although charges under private law can still be brought up (suing for damages etc.) and the parents can also possibly be sued for not supervising their children properly. [1] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_liability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_liability edit: formatting
    - CydeWeys 9y ago
      Infant literally means someone younger than a year old though. The juvenile justice system that applies to teenagers is completely different, and does not apply to infants. Infants cannot be held liable for their actions at all because their brain isn't developed enough to know right from wrong, or really even what they're doing.

by tamcap 9y ago

awinter-py 9y ago

Actually an interesting question. If the TOS includes the terms (1) you certify that all information provided to us is accurate (2) if you breach the TOS you must stop using the product and (3) you certify that you are over 18. Then your continued use after age 18 may in fact signify entering a contract, even though you were under 18 when you signed. It also may not. Capacity/consideration/intent to be bound are really tricky in this case.

prawn 9y ago
A far better response from PayPal would've been to return the money to Mat, explain the issue to their customer and request that they create a legal account. If every company assumed that every person with a discretion to their name was an undesirable customer, virtually none of us would be customers of any company.

stan_rogers 9y ago

It also makes you an infant and unable to contract for anything other than legal employment and "necessaries" (except with a next friend). Language may change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but the upshot is that an account created while underage would not be legally valid, and transactions for anything other than necessaries become revocable pretty much at will.

CydeWeys 9y ago
> It also makes you an infant What?! No it doesn't. Infants are under one year of age. An older teenager has much more legal, financial, and criminal self-determination and responsibility than an infant does.
- Lev1a 9y ago
  There's all kinds of weird and different rules/laws from country to country. For example in my country (Germany): "Minors between 14 and 18 years are sentenced by juvenile justice. An adult between 18 and 21 years may still be sentenced by juvenile justice if considered mentally immature." [0] This also means if the prosecution opens a court case against an individual that was less than 14 years of age at the time the crime was committed the criminal must be immediately dismissed although charges under private law can still be brought up (suing for damages etc.) and the parents can also possibly be sued for not supervising their children properly. [1] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_liability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_liability edit: formatting
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    Infant literally means someone younger than a year old though. The juvenile justice system that applies to teenagers is completely different, and does not apply to infants. Infants cannot be held liable for their actions at all because their brain isn't developed enough to know right from wrong, or really even what they're doing.