4 ms·

Feigned reflexive behavior? That's some sociopathic shit. > Such behaviours have strong roots in childhood and often a rational adult who has it brought to the

Feigned reflexive behavior? That's some sociopathic shit. > Such behaviours have strong roots in childhood and often a rational adult who has it brought to their attention will easily be able to never do it again lol! no. I do agree that this rule is encouraging people to be ever-self-conscious and overrule their social reflexes and would be more accurately called "repress surprise".

pvg 9y ago
People reflexively feign or exaggerate all sorts of emotions and reactions, it'd be stranger if they didn't.
- andreyf 9y ago
  That's simply not what that word means, and tacking on exaggeration a totally different social behavior displayed by different people with different purposes. feign |fān| verb [with object] — pretend to be affected by (a feeling, state, or injury): she feigned nervousness.
  - scandox 9y ago
    The dictionary definition of a word is only its starting point. There are many levels of awareness that may be in operation when someone is said to "feign".
    - andreyf 9y ago
      Words mean things. Feigned surprise is when you pretend to be surprised but are not really.
  - pvg 9y ago
    When someone you know tells you something important to them that you're uninterested in, you typically feign interest, possibly surprise without consciously thinking about it. Similarly, you can feign surprise at someone's ignorance not because you're really surprised but to berate them. It's also often done on autopilot, which is what the rule discussed in the post is about. I'm not sure what you mean by 'that's not what the word means'. You said 'reflexive feigned surprise' is 'sociopathic'. Reflexively representing some emotional state other than the one you exactly feel is a basic aspect of the way we behave and communicate. When someone's ability to do that is impaired, it's considered a handicap.
    - andreyf 9y ago
      I consciously try to be sincere and present my emotions accurately. I think that's generally a good rule of thumb. > you can feign surprise at someone's ignorance not because you're really surprised but to berate them On point! The rule should then be "don't berate others", or the more positive "empower others". This is just one example of this rule, one that I have not personally seen come up often, but perhaps that's because I have exactly 0 interest in being around anyone who berates others.
      - pvg 9y ago
        I consciously try to be sincere and present my emotions accurately. I think that's generally a good rule of thumb. This isn't about insincerity, it's simply a basic aspect of social behaviour. You don't sit on the bus crying or singing a happy song if you're sad or happy. We manage the emotions we project as second nature, just as we read and interpret the projected emotions of others. It's the opposite of sociopathic. The rule should then be "don't berate others" No, because the rule is about a specific (potentially) reflexive behaviour that can be destructive in the context they're talking about. They are trying to help people address it. "Don't berate others" is a fine sentiment but a little vague.
        andreyf 9y ago
        Not much of a singer, but I do have a propensity to whistle or hum when I'm happy! This would make sense if we were making an exhaustive list of "potentially reflexive behavior which people may engage in but should not in this community", but keeping such a list in your mind is one hell of a downer. The best rule to encompass this, I think, is "epower those around you". Noisebridge has an even broader social rule / ethos which has served them well: "be awesome to each other". Love the community at Recurse, but having social rules be a list of shitty things someone once did is the least awesome part of Recurse :-)
        pvg 9y ago
        This would make sense if we were making an exhaustive list Why would that make sense? It makes sense to point out common ones. Especially if you are, presumably like the people at Recurse are, informed by the experience of running that type of learning environment. They aren't trying to be exhaustive or all-encompassing or even a downer. They're trying to deal with problems they've encountered, not writing a formal system of acceptable behaviour.
scandox 9y ago
I don't think one needs to be a sociopath to lie or pretend automatically. I believe we all do it all the time, as a very necessary social mechanism. There are all kinds of delusions we participate in together so that we can tolerate one another.
- andreyf 9y ago
  So by "feigned reflex" you mean "lying or pretending automatically"? What you are describing has nothing to do with being surprised that someone is, e.g. trying to write a bitcoin client without understanding what a socket or IP address is. I love Recurse, but the social rules are like padded corners for folks who need help that Recurse isn't equipped to provide, not something to take life lessons from. Every good team has junior folks who, by comparison, really simply just don't know jack shit about technology. Every single person came into this world without knowing anything and they need to feel like they belong as much as folks with 40 years of experience fiddling bits. The root issue here is folks coming out of psychologically traumatizing competitive conditioning. You don't see any montessori kids complaining about anyone being surprised they're doing something without knowing a prerequisite.

pvg 9y ago

People reflexively feign or exaggerate all sorts of emotions and reactions, it'd be stranger if they didn't.

andreyf 9y ago
That's simply not what that word means, and tacking on exaggeration a totally different social behavior displayed by different people with different purposes. feign |fān| verb [with object] — pretend to be affected by (a feeling, state, or injury): she feigned nervousness.
- scandox 9y ago
  The dictionary definition of a word is only its starting point. There are many levels of awareness that may be in operation when someone is said to "feign".
  - andreyf 9y ago
    Words mean things. Feigned surprise is when you pretend to be surprised but are not really.
- pvg 9y ago
  When someone you know tells you something important to them that you're uninterested in, you typically feign interest, possibly surprise without consciously thinking about it. Similarly, you can feign surprise at someone's ignorance not because you're really surprised but to berate them. It's also often done on autopilot, which is what the rule discussed in the post is about. I'm not sure what you mean by 'that's not what the word means'. You said 'reflexive feigned surprise' is 'sociopathic'. Reflexively representing some emotional state other than the one you exactly feel is a basic aspect of the way we behave and communicate. When someone's ability to do that is impaired, it's considered a handicap.
  - andreyf 9y ago
    I consciously try to be sincere and present my emotions accurately. I think that's generally a good rule of thumb. > you can feign surprise at someone's ignorance not because you're really surprised but to berate them On point! The rule should then be "don't berate others", or the more positive "empower others". This is just one example of this rule, one that I have not personally seen come up often, but perhaps that's because I have exactly 0 interest in being around anyone who berates others.
    - pvg 9y ago
      I consciously try to be sincere and present my emotions accurately. I think that's generally a good rule of thumb. This isn't about insincerity, it's simply a basic aspect of social behaviour. You don't sit on the bus crying or singing a happy song if you're sad or happy. We manage the emotions we project as second nature, just as we read and interpret the projected emotions of others. It's the opposite of sociopathic. The rule should then be "don't berate others" No, because the rule is about a specific (potentially) reflexive behaviour that can be destructive in the context they're talking about. They are trying to help people address it. "Don't berate others" is a fine sentiment but a little vague.
      - andreyf 9y ago
        Not much of a singer, but I do have a propensity to whistle or hum when I'm happy! This would make sense if we were making an exhaustive list of "potentially reflexive behavior which people may engage in but should not in this community", but keeping such a list in your mind is one hell of a downer. The best rule to encompass this, I think, is "epower those around you". Noisebridge has an even broader social rule / ethos which has served them well: "be awesome to each other". Love the community at Recurse, but having social rules be a list of shitty things someone once did is the least awesome part of Recurse :-)
        pvg 9y ago
        This would make sense if we were making an exhaustive list Why would that make sense? It makes sense to point out common ones. Especially if you are, presumably like the people at Recurse are, informed by the experience of running that type of learning environment. They aren't trying to be exhaustive or all-encompassing or even a downer. They're trying to deal with problems they've encountered, not writing a formal system of acceptable behaviour.

scandox 9y ago

I don't think one needs to be a sociopath to lie or pretend automatically. I believe we all do it all the time, as a very necessary social mechanism. There are all kinds of delusions we participate in together so that we can tolerate one another.

andreyf 9y ago
So by "feigned reflex" you mean "lying or pretending automatically"? What you are describing has nothing to do with being surprised that someone is, e.g. trying to write a bitcoin client without understanding what a socket or IP address is. I love Recurse, but the social rules are like padded corners for folks who need help that Recurse isn't equipped to provide, not something to take life lessons from. Every good team has junior folks who, by comparison, really simply just don't know jack shit about technology. Every single person came into this world without knowing anything and they need to feel like they belong as much as folks with 40 years of experience fiddling bits. The root issue here is folks coming out of psychologically traumatizing competitive conditioning. You don't see any montessori kids complaining about anyone being surprised they're doing something without knowing a prerequisite.