4 ms·

I appreciate the point you're making. Re-read the quote I have in my comment and remove the word 'literal'. Does that sentence have more, less, or the same me

by Jedd 10y ago

I appreciate the point you're making. Re-read the quote I have in my comment and remove the word 'literal'. Does that sentence have more, less, or the same meaning / power to you?

mrxd 10y ago
Without 'literal': don't be shy With 'literal': don't stand by the wall
- Jedd 10y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting there's a profound loss of meaning between: > There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give advice to awkward people looking for social shortcuts, and you tell them not to be literal wallflowers. and > There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give advice to awkward people looking for social shortcuts, and you tell them not to be wallflowers.
  - dmoy 10y ago
    Yes. The former can be argued as more polite, because you're suggesting an alternate course of action (don't stand near wall), and the latter can be construed as an attack on a person's mentality (you're a shy person, don't be that way [that's bad]).
    - Jedd 10y ago
      > The former can be argued as more polite, because you're suggesting an alternate course of action ... alternative
      - dmoy 10y ago
        In US English at least, alternate can be used as a direct synonym for alternative. Idk if it's the same in British English. Might be different like the phrase "just in case", etc.
  - greggyb 10y ago
    Why does the threshold have to be "profound" for word choice and phrasing decisions? There is a non-trivial difference in connotation between the two sentences. In vernacular conversation "wallflower" can be used as a term to connote (strong) shyness or to indicate generalized presence on the periphery of an event. In the sentence from the article, "literal" helps to shift emphasis away from the "shy" connotation. Without it, or some other way to emphasize connotation, the sentence is easier to misinterpret as follows: "..., and you tell them not to be too shy."
  - sanderjd 10y ago
    Couldn't this whole thread be avoided if they had said, "and you tell them not to stand by walls". Or even, "not to literally stand by walls" - both work in this case! :-)
deleted 10y ago
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by Jedd 10y ago

I appreciate the point you're making. Re-read the quote I have in my comment and remove the word 'literal'. Does that sentence have more, less, or the same meaning / power to you?

mrxd 10y ago

Without 'literal': don't be shy With 'literal': don't stand by the wall

Jedd 10y ago
Are you seriously suggesting there's a profound loss of meaning between: > There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give advice to awkward people looking for social shortcuts, and you tell them not to be literal wallflowers. and > There’s a moment in your book that I love, when you give advice to awkward people looking for social shortcuts, and you tell them not to be wallflowers.
- dmoy 10y ago
  Yes. The former can be argued as more polite, because you're suggesting an alternate course of action (don't stand near wall), and the latter can be construed as an attack on a person's mentality (you're a shy person, don't be that way [that's bad]).
  - Jedd 10y ago
    > The former can be argued as more polite, because you're suggesting an alternate course of action ... alternative
    - dmoy 10y ago
      In US English at least, alternate can be used as a direct synonym for alternative. Idk if it's the same in British English. Might be different like the phrase "just in case", etc.
- greggyb 10y ago
  Why does the threshold have to be "profound" for word choice and phrasing decisions? There is a non-trivial difference in connotation between the two sentences. In vernacular conversation "wallflower" can be used as a term to connote (strong) shyness or to indicate generalized presence on the periphery of an event. In the sentence from the article, "literal" helps to shift emphasis away from the "shy" connotation. Without it, or some other way to emphasize connotation, the sentence is easier to misinterpret as follows: "..., and you tell them not to be too shy."
- sanderjd 10y ago
  Couldn't this whole thread be avoided if they had said, "and you tell them not to stand by walls". Or even, "not to literally stand by walls" - both work in this case! :-)

deleted 10y ago

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