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Could you elaborate on this? I disagree with what it seems you're saying, but I'm not sure I get your point.

by SomeStupidPoint 9y ago

NikolaeVarius 9y ago
The idea of a Normal person/other. Sort of like one of those "Normal People Scare Me" T-Shirts
- SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
  I find it strange people are so averse to the idea there's a "normal", particularly if we confine ourselves to talking about, eg, social behavior traits. Statistically, there is, and most people cluster around being sort of that, even though no one is exactly the "norm". I think people just get used to making hyperfine distinctions within their cluster and forget how homogeneous the cluster actually is from the outside. Sort of like you can generally tell apart faces from peoples you grew up around better than ones you didn't. The truth is we do all look alike, just like outsiders see, even if the differences seem prominent to us.
- DanBC 9y ago
  People with autism are constantly told they're not normal, so the neuro-typical / ASD split isn't something they created. NT is not meant to derogatory or dismissive, and is a neutral non-judgemental term.
  - fjdlwlv 9y ago
    D is for disorder. People who say NT are people who challenge the claim that Disorder is appropriate terminology. Instead of an "order/disorder"distinction, they draw a "typical/diverse" distinction. NT isn't quite neutral -- nothing ever is -- it's an intentional removal of the bias that the center of the bell curve is superior.
kingkawn 9y ago
I think that the primary symptom of what is being called autism in this case is the belief that others are better at handling social interaction. The autistic's commitment to this belief is the cultural milieu they develop for themselves. I hear you, it is more of a glimmer of a thought than something that I have worked out well, and I gladly welcome your explanation as to why I am off-base! It feels though that the elaborateness of this self-identity is a sign that the person is actually quite typical, but somehow their ability to perform critical analysis has been turned viciously against their own behavior because of a few early formative experiences becoming the archetype of all socialization. In short then it is the scrutiny they are subjecting themselves to that is the problem. Their commitment to furthering the development of this self-identity is of course all good, free to choose their lives as they see them. If they are in fact in social pain about the state they discover themselves in I would suggest to them that what they consider to be discovery is instead creation. And creation carries no inherent obligations, and they are much freer than the story they have learned to tell would permit them to admit.
- SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
  I'm still not sure what your point is. Mild autism (what we're talking about here), in many ways, is (to use a tech analogy) like missing SSL offloading when everyone else has it. You can still talk SSL, by manually doing it on the CPU, but it bogs down the CPU with crypto and becomes overwhelming if you're trying to do other things at the same time. You're also not going to be as efficient at SSL, which means you can get overwhelmed by just trying to manage SSL if there's many connections at once. Recognizing that difference -- that there is a difference in how you're processing those things -- is the first step to doing it better. Autistic people are literally wired differently: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688328/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688328/ (Also, note that the paper uses the phrase "typically developing" to denote non-Autistic people.)
  - kingkawn 9y ago
    Again I believe that it is the concept of not achieving typicality that is the driving force of continuously deepening the autistic's state of alienation, even when typicality itself is an abstract "average" state that no person actually embodies. edit: Just wanted to add, I'm not saying that autistics are not clearly at the avant-garde edges of personality, I am just suggesting that the source of the difference is created by the autistic's self-understanding.

Could you elaborate on this? I disagree with what it seems you're saying, but I'm not sure I get your point.

NikolaeVarius 9y ago

The idea of a Normal person/other. Sort of like one of those "Normal People Scare Me" T-Shirts

SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
I find it strange people are so averse to the idea there's a "normal", particularly if we confine ourselves to talking about, eg, social behavior traits. Statistically, there is, and most people cluster around being sort of that, even though no one is exactly the "norm". I think people just get used to making hyperfine distinctions within their cluster and forget how homogeneous the cluster actually is from the outside. Sort of like you can generally tell apart faces from peoples you grew up around better than ones you didn't. The truth is we do all look alike, just like outsiders see, even if the differences seem prominent to us.
DanBC 9y ago
People with autism are constantly told they're not normal, so the neuro-typical / ASD split isn't something they created. NT is not meant to derogatory or dismissive, and is a neutral non-judgemental term.
- fjdlwlv 9y ago
  D is for disorder. People who say NT are people who challenge the claim that Disorder is appropriate terminology. Instead of an "order/disorder"distinction, they draw a "typical/diverse" distinction. NT isn't quite neutral -- nothing ever is -- it's an intentional removal of the bias that the center of the bell curve is superior.

kingkawn 9y ago

I think that the primary symptom of what is being called autism in this case is the belief that others are better at handling social interaction. The autistic's commitment to this belief is the cultural milieu they develop for themselves. I hear you, it is more of a glimmer of a thought than something that I have worked out well, and I gladly welcome your explanation as to why I am off-base! It feels though that the elaborateness of this self-identity is a sign that the person is actually quite typical, but somehow their ability to perform critical analysis has been turned viciously against their own behavior because of a few early formative experiences becoming the archetype of all socialization. In short then it is the scrutiny they are subjecting themselves to that is the problem. Their commitment to furthering the development of this self-identity is of course all good, free to choose their lives as they see them. If they are in fact in social pain about the state they discover themselves in I would suggest to them that what they consider to be discovery is instead creation. And creation carries no inherent obligations, and they are much freer than the story they have learned to tell would permit them to admit.

SomeStupidPoint 9y ago
I'm still not sure what your point is. Mild autism (what we're talking about here), in many ways, is (to use a tech analogy) like missing SSL offloading when everyone else has it. You can still talk SSL, by manually doing it on the CPU, but it bogs down the CPU with crypto and becomes overwhelming if you're trying to do other things at the same time. You're also not going to be as efficient at SSL, which means you can get overwhelmed by just trying to manage SSL if there's many connections at once. Recognizing that difference -- that there is a difference in how you're processing those things -- is the first step to doing it better. Autistic people are literally wired differently: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688328/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688328/ (Also, note that the paper uses the phrase "typically developing" to denote non-Autistic people.)
- kingkawn 9y ago
  Again I believe that it is the concept of not achieving typicality that is the driving force of continuously deepening the autistic's state of alienation, even when typicality itself is an abstract "average" state that no person actually embodies. edit: Just wanted to add, I'm not saying that autistics are not clearly at the avant-garde edges of personality, I am just suggesting that the source of the difference is created by the autistic's self-understanding.