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Stories like these make me feel spoiled. I wish I knew how to help.
by emef 16y ago
Stories like these make me feel spoiled. I wish I knew how to help.
- JeffL 16y agoSpread the politics of freedom and capitalism. What is happening in North Korea is the logical outcome of the theories of Socialism.
- ugh 16y agoIt obviously isn’t. There are several age old European parties with roots in socialism and they are all pretty harmless. I don’t think simplistic portrayals of history and ideologies – like yours – are very helpful. Here is my version: Identify which concepts, ideas and methods turned North Korea to the state it is today. Discourage the use of those concepts, ideas and methods whenever they are proposed. This is probably best done by pointing out errors or inconsistencies or by presenting alternatives.
- Tichy 16y agoWhat makes you think it obviously isn't? That such parties exist doesn't prove anything unless they get to power.
- ugh 16y agoUhm … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democratic_Party_of_Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democrati... They even have bona fide anti-tyranny credentials: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democratic_Party_of_Germany#Era_of_national_socialism_.2F_SoPaDe_.281933.E2.80.931945.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Social_Democrati... And that’s just one example. I should probably clarify that I really have no qualms with the first sentence of the grandparent’s comment. A generalization, maybe, but markets do work great in many situations and freedom created tremendous wealth and happiness. I just think that you shouldn’t use the term “Socialism” in the way the grandparent did. It just has too much history and too many ideas, concepts and methods connected with it.
- Tichy 16y agoThey are pretty far removed from communism, though. Isn't what they aim for more like "social insurance"? Insurance seems to be a concept that can be reconciled with capitalism.
- ugh 16y agoToday, sure. Not in the past, not until the late 1950s, even. All I wanted to say is that they started out with Socialism and didn’t turn everything they touched into North Korea. Which means that tyranny is not the logical consequence of Socialism.
- tome 16y agoSeveral are currently or have recently been in power.
- jules 16y agoUm, they regularly are in power. For example last time socialist parties got 65/150 seats in parliament in the netherlands. Liberals got 25/150 seats. Parties based on religion got 47/150 seats. Note that even liberals are more left wing in many ways than the democrats in the US, but the socialists are not at all like the typical "whaaaa, commies" person imagines them. At least we still seem to be going fine.
- riffic 16y agofreedom and socialism as philosophical theories are not diametrically opposed.
- Tichy 16y agoPleas give me at least a hint as to how to reconcile the concepts then?
- McP 16y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
- viggity 16y agoHow exactly can I be free when the government - under the threat of force - extracts money that I have earned to give it to another third party?
- rubinelli 16y agoAre you saying that no taxpayer is free?
- inferno0069 16y agoHow can I be free with no money with which to purchase food/shelter/education/materials? Even Milton Friedman was in favor of redistributing wealth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax
- FlorinAndrei 16y agoThese days, whenever I hear the word "socialism", I automatically stop listening and move across the room to start a different discussion. It's on the same list with "flat earth", "autism-causing vaccines" and so forth. EDIT: I'm sorry to say, but it seems like the majority of people in the US use this word a lot without having any idea what it really means. It's become empty, a visceral cry, bypassing rational thought entirely. This too shall pass, I guess, but for now it's pretty sad.
- rbanffy 16y agoIt's actually worse. They equate socialism with dictatorships, completely ignoring right-wing dictatorships ans socialist democracies.
- stretchwithme 16y agoyeah, its terrible. personally I think the US should agree to take any refugees that come across the border into China. We can just take them to South Korea. Maybe that will make it easier for China to stop supporting this twisted situation.
- emef 16y agoDisplaced peoples is a hard topic. It's easy to say to just put them somewhere, but in reality it would be more complicated than that. I do agree though that these people need support.
- hugh3 16y agoThe North Koreans could easily shoot anyone who tried to flee to China, if there were more than a tiny trickle of people trying to do so.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- sliverstorm 16y agoIf they really believe that the rest of the world wants to go to war with them, maybe what they need is for us to convince them we don't. How we'd get through the propaganda, and how we'd convince them, I don't know, but...
- FlorinAndrei 16y agoIn a case like this, it's pretty hard to differentiate between the official propaganda and what people really think. Even when they confess utter sincerity, you should always ask yourself just how big of a percentage of official doublespeak is automatically infused into their discourse (hint: the bigger the distance between you and them on the social graph, the bigger the percentage). Trust me, I know, I've been "there" (in a general sense, not the geographical location).
- hnote 16y agohttp://linkglobal.org/ http://linkglobal.org/ - Liberty in North Korea also their talk at Google is very, very impressive... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2531661047425836509 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2531661047425836509
- hnote 16y agofrom the website: What does LiNK do? We raise awareness about the human rights and humanitarian crisis in North Korea through the use of media and grassroots support. We help those who have fled their country because of this crisis – refugees – by sheltering them, advocating for them to governments all over the world, helping them resettle in countries that will accept them, and ultimately empowering them to live new lives.
- chrisb 16y agoThe video is well worth watching. It gives a very clear picture of what's happening in North Korea, and about the situation for North Koreans inside and outside of North Korea (I was going to write '...their country', but that doesn't really seem correct). It is from 2007, but (as far as I know) the situation hasn't changed much. Althoug the South Korean "Sunshine Policy" has now been stopped. Due to a change of government a bit over a year ago, not in response to the more recent naval conflict. Two things the speaker said that stood out to me: 1. This humanitarian disaster is totally man-made. 2. This is a place in which the word "evil" really does apply.
- emef 16y agoThe situation is surreal. One of the (many) moving points he made was that grown adults firmly believe that Americans have demon horns and pitch fork spiked tails. These people have been on complete lockdown for fifty years and shut out from the world, both mentally and physically. This leadership needs to be destroyed, they are committing too many atrocities.