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Which "science" has been denied about gun control? The question of gun rights is a moral one not scientific.

by Sunset 9y ago

gumby 9y ago
The morality of guns is affected by their impact. If nobody every died from a gun who would if anyone owned one? But the US congress specifically barred federal collection of data on gun deaths so that no factual conclusions could be drawn.
- manyxcxi 9y ago
  Do you have a citation for that? I've not heard of this and I follow the issue relatively closely. I also find gun death stats pretty widely available and broken down to pretty small geographical areas from various governmental (not necessarily just federal though) and non-governmental organizations. I do remember having read that a lot of law enforcement agencies don't collect, or collect in a way that makes it hard to tabulate shootings by officers- but a) I don't have a cite for that, it was a while ago, and b) that's also up to individual enforcement agencies, not federal.
  - gumby 9y ago
    Umm, it's not a secret or obscure law that bars the CDC from studying gun impact: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996) - The Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jay-dickey-gun-violence-research-amendment_us_561333d7e4b022a4ce5f45bf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jay-dickey-gun-violence-... - The ban has supposedly been lifted: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-cdc-still-isnt-researching-gun-violence-despite-the-ban-being-lifted-two-years-ago/?utm_term=.67cc74189cad https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/... - Some more history: http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2013/02/gun-violence.aspx http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2013/02/gun-violence.as... - some background: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-funding-20160614-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-re... And I love this entry on a blog site (Forbes): Why The Centers For Disease Control Should Not Receive Gun Research Funding: https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/12/why-the-centers-for-disease-control-should-not-receive-gun-research-funding/#579695b5282d https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/12/why-the-ce... The reasoning? "There was a very good reason for the gun violence research funding ban. Virtually all of the scores of CDC-funded firearms studies conducted since 1985 had reached conclusions favoring stricter gun control. "
  - extra88 9y ago
    The most glaring example is Congress taking away funding from the Centers for Disease Control to study gun violence (I think they still do some reports based on data collected by others but not their own original research). While gun crimes get some attention, particularly mass shootings, accidents and suicides account for most gun deaths and injuries.
- gumby 9y ago
  Why should this have been downvoted? The post I replied to asked why science matters if the gun issue is moral. I simply stated how science (i.e. reasoning from data) affects moral action, and how the two interact (addressing the other part of the poster's question). It was not a pro- or anti-gun statement. I fired a handgun just the other day.
  - Sunset 9y ago
    There isn't a hypothetical set of statistics you can imagine that would change my moral stance on gun rights and self defense one way or the other.
    - gumby 9y ago
      Interesting. Is that true for all topics, or just guns? I ask because there are plenty of other such cases. We decide how much to spend on freeway construction and maintenance vs lives saved. We study the dangers, additivity etc of smoking and decide it's better to place some restrictions on people's presumed freedom of choice in order to, ironically, improve their in practice freedom of choice. We restrict the absoluteness of some peoples' freedom of association to improve everyone's freedom of association, using data to determine where this might be appropriate and how much. Etc etc. What I have said is true regardless if you think the right to bear arms is absolute or if you think it's absolutely abhorrent, much less if your position is in between. Do you believe that science has no bearing on morality of any kind, or only on the topic of guns?
      - tnzn 9y ago
        You're probably talking to some libertarian who believes freedom is "doing whatever the fuck I think is best for myself"
spiderfarmer 9y ago
https://www.sciencealert.com/review-of-130-studies-finds-powerful-evidence-that-gun-control-works https://www.sciencealert.com/review-of-130-studies-finds-pow... You can have gun rights and gun control you know..

Which "science" has been denied about gun control? The question of gun rights is a moral one not scientific.

by Sunset 9y ago

Which "science" has been denied about gun control? The question of gun rights is a moral one not scientific.

The morality of guns is affected by their impact. If nobody every died from a gun who would if anyone owned one? But the US congress specifically barred federal collection of data on gun deaths so that no factual conclusions could be drawn.

manyxcxi 9y ago
Do you have a citation for that? I've not heard of this and I follow the issue relatively closely. I also find gun death stats pretty widely available and broken down to pretty small geographical areas from various governmental (not necessarily just federal though) and non-governmental organizations. I do remember having read that a lot of law enforcement agencies don't collect, or collect in a way that makes it hard to tabulate shootings by officers- but a) I don't have a cite for that, it was a while ago, and b) that's also up to individual enforcement agencies, not federal.
- gumby 9y ago
  Umm, it's not a secret or obscure law that bars the CDC from studying gun impact: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment_(1996) - The Congressman Who Restricted Gun Violence Research Has Regrets: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jay-dickey-gun-violence-research-amendment_us_561333d7e4b022a4ce5f45bf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jay-dickey-gun-violence-... - The ban has supposedly been lifted: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-cdc-still-isnt-researching-gun-violence-despite-the-ban-being-lifted-two-years-ago/?utm_term=.67cc74189cad https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/... - Some more history: http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2013/02/gun-violence.aspx http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2013/02/gun-violence.as... - some background: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-funding-20160614-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-re... And I love this entry on a blog site (Forbes): Why The Centers For Disease Control Should Not Receive Gun Research Funding: https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/12/why-the-centers-for-disease-control-should-not-receive-gun-research-funding/#579695b5282d https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/12/why-the-ce... The reasoning? "There was a very good reason for the gun violence research funding ban. Virtually all of the scores of CDC-funded firearms studies conducted since 1985 had reached conclusions favoring stricter gun control. "
- extra88 9y ago
  The most glaring example is Congress taking away funding from the Centers for Disease Control to study gun violence (I think they still do some reports based on data collected by others but not their own original research). While gun crimes get some attention, particularly mass shootings, accidents and suicides account for most gun deaths and injuries.
gumby 9y ago
Why should this have been downvoted? The post I replied to asked why science matters if the gun issue is moral. I simply stated how science (i.e. reasoning from data) affects moral action, and how the two interact (addressing the other part of the poster's question). It was not a pro- or anti-gun statement. I fired a handgun just the other day.
- Sunset 9y ago
  There isn't a hypothetical set of statistics you can imagine that would change my moral stance on gun rights and self defense one way or the other.
  - gumby 9y ago
    Interesting. Is that true for all topics, or just guns? I ask because there are plenty of other such cases. We decide how much to spend on freeway construction and maintenance vs lives saved. We study the dangers, additivity etc of smoking and decide it's better to place some restrictions on people's presumed freedom of choice in order to, ironically, improve their in practice freedom of choice. We restrict the absoluteness of some peoples' freedom of association to improve everyone's freedom of association, using data to determine where this might be appropriate and how much. Etc etc. What I have said is true regardless if you think the right to bear arms is absolute or if you think it's absolutely abhorrent, much less if your position is in between. Do you believe that science has no bearing on morality of any kind, or only on the topic of guns?
    - tnzn 9y ago
      You're probably talking to some libertarian who believes freedom is "doing whatever the fuck I think is best for myself"

spiderfarmer 9y ago

https://www.sciencealert.com/review-of-130-studies-finds-powerful-evidence-that-gun-control-works https://www.sciencealert.com/review-of-130-studies-finds-pow... You can have gun rights and gun control you know..