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To amplify your point, cloning in the sense used in this discussion is intellectual property theft. It doesn't matter whether it deliberately attempts to pass

To amplify your point, cloning in the sense used in this discussion is intellectual property theft. It doesn't matter whether it deliberately attempts to pass itself off as the genuine article (i.e. a counterfeit item) or attempts to capitalize on the name brand by making the article visually almost identical (e.g. Sharpie vs Shoupie pens - a knockoff). A sobering fact is that about $653 billion worldwide is lost from counterfeit goods[1]. The FBI takes this position[2]: > legitimate businesses lose billions of dollars in revenue and suffer damaged reputations, consumer prices go up, the U.S. and global economies are robbed of jobs and tax revenue, product safety is reduced, and sometimes lives are even put at risk. As much as I am not a fan in particular of the FBI, I agree with this statement. In fact, the USA is hit the hardest by far, losing $225 billion annually to counterfeiting[3]. Bottom line: a person or company should be able to profit from their ideas, research and development, productization, licensing and marketing, without having these things stolen by others and used to make money off their sweat. [1]: http://www.havocscope.com/category/counterfeit-goods/ http://www.havocscope.com/category/counterfeit-goods/ [2]: https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/white-collar-crime/piracy-ip-theft https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/white-collar-crime/piracy-ip... [3]: http://www.havocscope.com/losses-to-counterfeit-goods-by-country/ http://www.havocscope.com/losses-to-counterfeit-goods-by-cou...

rebootthesystem 9y ago
Exactly. I have, in my mind, this image of a river of money flowing from the US to China for counterfeit goods. They results in the destruction of businesses and jobs as well as taking a significant amount of money out of our economy and into theirs.
- kuschku 9y ago
  > They results in the destruction of businesses and jobs as well as taking a significant amount of money out of our economy and into theirs. You do know how ironic this sounds for readers not from either of these countries? It’s usually the US that ends up destroying local businesses and jobs in Europe, with the money then flowing to the US.
  - rebootthesystem 9y ago
    If that is happening it isn't because of intellectual property theft. That's the difference.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      That depends on a very narrow definition of it. Quite often smaller European companies get destroyed because some US megacorp steals the IP and manages to stall the legal process until the small company goes bankrupt.
      - rebootthesystem 9y ago
        This is true. I happens here in the US just as well. Yet this is a different issue. In one case you have a massive number of companies in China stealing IP and copying products while their government looks the other way. In the other case you have an asymmetric legal situation. Even a small company can bring a mega corp to it's knees due to IP theft. Patents are powerful things when used correctly. Yet, we are talking about very different things here. China --a nation-- has a massive product cloning and IP theft industry. This is happening at an astounding scale under a government that almost encourages it. There are plenty of stories of Kickstarter projects that run into clones before their funding completes. This can be devastating for an entrepreneur and their small company. It all points back to China.
  - defined 9y ago
    If you visit the links I posted, you will see that other countries suffer, too. I don't deny that some US businesses have predatory practices, and that is wrong, but it doesn't come close to the wholesale IP theft we are seeing, and doesn't make it any less wrong. If you claim it's a "huge part of the US economy", you should back this up with some evidence.
- petra 9y ago
  Historically, it's been a common strategy for emerging economies to rise up through that process. Even the US did it at one time, and it's probably a big reason why it has such a strong IP position today.

rebootthesystem 9y ago

Exactly. I have, in my mind, this image of a river of money flowing from the US to China for counterfeit goods. They results in the destruction of businesses and jobs as well as taking a significant amount of money out of our economy and into theirs.

kuschku 9y ago
> They results in the destruction of businesses and jobs as well as taking a significant amount of money out of our economy and into theirs. You do know how ironic this sounds for readers not from either of these countries? It’s usually the US that ends up destroying local businesses and jobs in Europe, with the money then flowing to the US.
- rebootthesystem 9y ago
  If that is happening it isn't because of intellectual property theft. That's the difference.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    That depends on a very narrow definition of it. Quite often smaller European companies get destroyed because some US megacorp steals the IP and manages to stall the legal process until the small company goes bankrupt.
    - rebootthesystem 9y ago
      This is true. I happens here in the US just as well. Yet this is a different issue. In one case you have a massive number of companies in China stealing IP and copying products while their government looks the other way. In the other case you have an asymmetric legal situation. Even a small company can bring a mega corp to it's knees due to IP theft. Patents are powerful things when used correctly. Yet, we are talking about very different things here. China --a nation-- has a massive product cloning and IP theft industry. This is happening at an astounding scale under a government that almost encourages it. There are plenty of stories of Kickstarter projects that run into clones before their funding completes. This can be devastating for an entrepreneur and their small company. It all points back to China.
- defined 9y ago
  If you visit the links I posted, you will see that other countries suffer, too. I don't deny that some US businesses have predatory practices, and that is wrong, but it doesn't come close to the wholesale IP theft we are seeing, and doesn't make it any less wrong. If you claim it's a "huge part of the US economy", you should back this up with some evidence.
petra 9y ago
Historically, it's been a common strategy for emerging economies to rise up through that process. Even the US did it at one time, and it's probably a big reason why it has such a strong IP position today.