5 ms·

All of your examples are from more than thirty years ago. In the mean time, half of South America had pretty leftist governments and nothing happened.

cuchoi 9y ago
Maybe Latin American governments learned their lesson
- AnAfrican 9y ago
  While I'm sure you don't see it that way, your comment is true on many levels. Leftists got better at "not being scary" to foreign and most importantly local interests. And for the most part, they delivered. Basically the José Figueres Ferrer way.
  - jbreckmckye 9y ago
    You mean, they assented to playing the role of client states and let foreign investors asset strip their economies?
    - AnAfrican 9y ago
      I mean they actually improved delivered on major issue like education, social programs, wages and actually really improved the lives of their citizen. Bolsa Familia surely lacks the romantism of the comprehensive agrarian reform but I like the fact that it has actually been done.
      - jbreckmckye 9y ago
        > I mean they actually improved delivered on major issue like education, social programs, wages and actually really improved the lives of their citizen. And it was for that reason the US left their governments unmolested?
        AnAfrican 9y ago
        Nope. But it sure does prove that those things can be done.
SapphireSun 9y ago
30 years is not long enough for everyone involved to be dead and no longer influential... and that doesn't even touch on whether the reason it happened is structural. I'm not sure I understand your second point.
- AnAfrican 9y ago
  >30 years is not long enough for everyone involved to be dead and no longer influential... and that doesn't even touch on whether the reason it happened is structural. Context matters. With the end of the cold war, the oligarchy doesn't get to use a threat to gather support. And a certain level of diversification of those economies have made the very powerful less power. My second point is that half of South America had left wing government and there was no Coups. Things would have been very different for Lula or Correa in the 70's.
  - senorjazz 9y ago
    errrr, a little history for you. Coup attempt in Venezuala where Chavez was kidnapped and fly out of the country until the people came onto the streets. CIA implicated [1] [2] Coup attempt in Ecuador a few years back Correa held [3]. Although am not aware of any covert involvement or evidence to imply. However, as is often the case with these Latin America issues, accusations are always laid at the US doorstop. But Correa did make the US leave their Manta based army base, did make anti US noise, did get close to Chavez and Ecuador is an oil producing country so it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to think so involvement based on past behaviour of the US.. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org https://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised_(documentary) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ecuador_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ecuador_crisis
- ptaipale 9y ago
  > 30 years is not long enough for everyone involved to be dead and no longer influential. In Venezuela, it looks like slightly less than that was enough.
deleted 9y ago
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cuchoi 9y ago

Maybe Latin American governments learned their lesson

AnAfrican 9y ago
While I'm sure you don't see it that way, your comment is true on many levels. Leftists got better at "not being scary" to foreign and most importantly local interests. And for the most part, they delivered. Basically the José Figueres Ferrer way.
- jbreckmckye 9y ago
  You mean, they assented to playing the role of client states and let foreign investors asset strip their economies?
  - AnAfrican 9y ago
    I mean they actually improved delivered on major issue like education, social programs, wages and actually really improved the lives of their citizen. Bolsa Familia surely lacks the romantism of the comprehensive agrarian reform but I like the fact that it has actually been done.
    - jbreckmckye 9y ago
      > I mean they actually improved delivered on major issue like education, social programs, wages and actually really improved the lives of their citizen. And it was for that reason the US left their governments unmolested?
      - AnAfrican 9y ago
        Nope. But it sure does prove that those things can be done.

SapphireSun 9y ago

30 years is not long enough for everyone involved to be dead and no longer influential... and that doesn't even touch on whether the reason it happened is structural. I'm not sure I understand your second point.

AnAfrican 9y ago
>30 years is not long enough for everyone involved to be dead and no longer influential... and that doesn't even touch on whether the reason it happened is structural. Context matters. With the end of the cold war, the oligarchy doesn't get to use a threat to gather support. And a certain level of diversification of those economies have made the very powerful less power. My second point is that half of South America had left wing government and there was no Coups. Things would have been very different for Lula or Correa in the 70's.
- senorjazz 9y ago
  errrr, a little history for you. Coup attempt in Venezuala where Chavez was kidnapped and fly out of the country until the people came onto the streets. CIA implicated [1] [2] Coup attempt in Ecuador a few years back Correa held [3]. Although am not aware of any covert involvement or evidence to imply. However, as is often the case with these Latin America issues, accusations are always laid at the US doorstop. But Correa did make the US leave their Manta based army base, did make anti US noise, did get close to Chavez and Ecuador is an oil producing country so it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to think so involvement based on past behaviour of the US.. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org https://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/The_Revolution_Will_Not_Be_Televised_(documentary) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ecuador_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ecuador_crisis
ptaipale 9y ago
> 30 years is not long enough for everyone involved to be dead and no longer influential. In Venezuela, it looks like slightly less than that was enough.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]