6 ms·

Care to explain how he messed this one up?

mozumder 9y ago
Because you are now more dependent on private cars for transport. Why would you use this instead of a system where you take a neighborhood bus to the local transit station & shopping center where you can pick up a light rail to the closest subway station, where you take the express train downtown to the high-speed rail station, where you take that to visit the next state for the day? No cars, and you can sit and read a book or take a nap or enjoy the view if you wanted to. The only scalable transit solution is mass public transit. The world can't afford to pave a private luxury road for everyone to go wherever they want to go. They need to learn to sit next to random strangers on the subway or the bus. If people can't sit next to random strangers on the subway or on the bus, they should be seen as dysfunctional and sociopathic. This really is one of the worst things I've seen. It may possibly be worse than his Hyperloop, another truly awful idea. Elon Musk strikes me as one of those guys that defunds mass transit, and then wonders why mass transit is so bad. "It's always breaking down and never on time hurr durr.. So, therefore, buy one of my shiny new cars!" He really hates mass transit for some reason. Maybe he just can't stand the general public? Is that why he's so into Mars, because he hates everyone here? We need less pampered and coddled people like Musk, and more people with grit that has the ability to interact with the general public.
- unityByFreedom 9y ago
  > He really hates mass transit for some reason. Maybe he just can't stand the general public? Is that why he's so into Mars, because he hates everyone here? > We need less pampered and coddled people like Musk, and more people with grit that has the ability to interact with the general public Spot on.
- terryf 9y ago
  > Why would you use this instead of a system where you take a neighborhood bus to the local transit station & shopping center where you can pick up a light rail to the closest subway station, where you take the express train downtown to the high-speed rail station, where you take that to visit the next state for the day? No cars, and you can sit and read a book or take a nap or enjoy the view if you wanted to. I'll take that one. Because I love my car - not the car itself, although I really do think it's beautiful - but the freedom that it gives me. I can get in it right now, without any planning or waiting and drive almost anywhere using exactly the route I choose. While sitting behind the wheel, I'm forced to not be able to do anything else than driving. That is a very nice time to think and just be. Some of the most beautiful scenery I've ever seen was in places where the nearest public transport option was a hour's drive away. I can leave stuff in the trunk if I buy it one day and then need it the next day. I also do grocery shopping weekly - carrying 5 bags of food by hand gets old really fast. The car is also where my younger kid's car seat is. I'm pretty sure nobody else would put their kid in there, the shape of the chocolate and cookie crumb mountain is exactly the shape he fits in you know. So, yes, you can do what you described. In fact, you can do it already today, but having a car? There's a reason people buy and repair and like them.
  - mozumder 9y ago
    Those things aren't free, though. You're paying $500-$1000/month for the luxury of doing those things, compared to the $100-$150 cost of a monthly transit pass. When you consider the costs, cars just don't have the appeal they used to, and you can spend money elsewhere that'll make you just as happy if not happier, especially as more services orient themselves to remove cars from the picture, such as Amazon & grocery delivery services. Besides, do you want a system that forces the rest of the public to buy cars? The congestion alone should be enough to discourage people from cars.
    - terryf 9y ago
      Yes, of course they aren't free. I also live in a house, that's more expensive than an apartment because I like it more this way. I often don't buy the cheapest food, but the food that I like. I don't want to force cars on anyone - it should be an individual choice of course. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of reasons people want to own cars. It's the choice between working with the existing system to make it better versus demanding that everyone adapts to a new system that you claim is better. Maybe it is, but getting the whole world to change at once to a completely different and in many ways harder system is very un likely to happen.
      - mozumder 9y ago
        > It's the choice between working with the existing system to make it better versus demanding that everyone adapts to a new system that you claim is better. Indeed, which is why we need as a society needs to pay for more rail systems, a tried-and-true mass transit system that's been around a lot longer than the more inefficient cars. Right now roads are such a wasteful government mess that's completely unprofitable. The personal automotive transport system is a failed experiment that society needs to move on from. And we need to stop subsidizing the wasteful and destructive suburban lifestyle. How much more of my money do you want me to pay for your roads so you can have the luxury of riding in comfort? Is there anything else that you would like me to pay for you?
      - deanCommie 9y ago
- zuron7 9y ago
  If I'm not wrong, there's actually a scheme for Tesla owners to rent out their cars while not in use(still in development). So, I envision these tunnels as part of his broader vision of having mass transit for everyone, except the biggest thing being that the mass transit need not have time tables. That's the worst thing about mass transit. Having to plan your day completely around it. Fine for the most of us, but isn't going to end private transport. I totally see the vision he has. It's a 30 year game he's playing, not a 5 year one.
- zardo 9y ago
  >Because you are now more dependent on private cars for transport. The video shows an electric rail system, that isn't incompatible with moving larger numbers of people. Look at the high occupancy car at :47. >If people can't sit next to random strangers on the subway or on the bus, they should be seen as dysfunctional and sociopathic. Mental illness is probably not going to disappear any time soon. Viewing them hatefully isn't going to get them to like riding the bus. It's just going to make you a hateful person.
- wonderwonder 9y ago
  I really don't think cars are going away any time soon for several reasons. Cars offer individuals far more freedom, go anywhere when you want. Also people live in rural areas, I'm not going to wait 3 hours for a bus to take me to my mom's house in the country, I'll just drive. In addition there is probably not a bus that goes there. People go shopping, they don't want to carry on $200 worth of groceries onto public transportation. Finally people have kids. Kids require a plethora of specialized items including car seats. I dont want to put my kid in a car seat a prior kid just urinated in. Kid's are also messy and require snacks and water bottles. People who can afford it are going to take cars. I hope The Boring Company is a rousing success.
  - mozumder 9y ago
    We're talking about LA, not rural areas.
  - billiam 9y ago
    Guess what rural areas don't have? Traffic. I love the way that Musk hacks the American economy, government subsidies, value system, marketing engine, and the capacity of the public to fall for bullshit, because that is how truly new things get made in this country. But this amusing semi-joke is just reflective of the fact that LA proves car-based transport doesn't scale, no matter who is driving. Mass transit is the answer.
    - wonderwonder 9y ago
      you need a car unless your life plan is just to limit yourself to only urban areas. If you ever want to leave the urban area you will need a car. If I have my own car, even if there is public transportation I will likely take my own car for the convenience of it being my own space. I am not arguing against the need for mass transport but I see no reason we cant have both.
      - rinon 9y ago
        Why not rent a car when you want to go on trips outside of urban areas? Seems far cheaper if you can actually get away without a care in the city.
- danellis 9y ago
  > Why would you use this instead of a system where you take a neighborhood bus to the local transit station Because I don't want to walk four miles in weather that could be 90 degrees or 9 degrees to get my "neighborhood" bus, and then waste hours of the day because I have to change to other buses (sometimes going in the wrong direction) to get somewhat close to my destination. I especially don't want to do that carrying heavy or fragile things, or in the rain or snow. As long as the US continues to be a sprawl, personal transportation will be important.
- losteric 9y ago
  Um, what? Tunneling costs are blocking mass transit in high-density regions. Light rail and subways are key to effective public transportation and affordable connected cities. Buses are best for last-minute/first-mile transport. Commoditization of tunnel boring technology around a couple standard sizes for any soil condition would radically reduce subway construction costs around the nation. That same technology could be leveraged for commercial transportation as well. I strongly suspect "tunnels for cars" is just marketing. Elon is known for doing his research, and the research shows that traffic is reduced by getting people off the road... Traffic is the equilibrium of convenience and discomfort, adding roads just puts more people on the road. Making mass transportation more convenient and cheap is vital to reducing traffic... the other piece is zoning for high density to support mass transportation.
- FlyingCocoon 9y ago
  Think of it with 100year horizon. Where it will outlast Musk. Where all cars are self driven autonomously. Where all cars are electric. We already have all the bits and pieces of it... The boring company is attempting to stitch it all together.

Because you are now more dependent on private cars for transport. Why would you use this instead of a system where you take a neighborhood bus to the local transit station & shopping center where you can pick up a light rail to the closest subway station, where you take the express train downtown to the high-speed rail station, where you take that to visit the next state for the day? No cars, and you can sit and read a book or take a nap or enjoy the view if you wanted to. The only scalable transit solution is mass public transit. The world can't afford to pave a private luxury road for everyone to go wherever they want to go. They need to learn to sit next to random strangers on the subway or the bus. If people can't sit next to random strangers on the subway or on the bus, they should be seen as dysfunctional and sociopathic. This really is one of the worst things I've seen. It may possibly be worse than his Hyperloop, another truly awful idea. Elon Musk strikes me as one of those guys that defunds mass transit, and then wonders why mass transit is so bad. "It's always breaking down and never on time hurr durr.. So, therefore, buy one of my shiny new cars!" He really hates mass transit for some reason. Maybe he just can't stand the general public? Is that why he's so into Mars, because he hates everyone here? We need less pampered and coddled people like Musk, and more people with grit that has the ability to interact with the general public.

unityByFreedom 9y ago
> He really hates mass transit for some reason. Maybe he just can't stand the general public? Is that why he's so into Mars, because he hates everyone here? > We need less pampered and coddled people like Musk, and more people with grit that has the ability to interact with the general public Spot on.
terryf 9y ago
> Why would you use this instead of a system where you take a neighborhood bus to the local transit station & shopping center where you can pick up a light rail to the closest subway station, where you take the express train downtown to the high-speed rail station, where you take that to visit the next state for the day? No cars, and you can sit and read a book or take a nap or enjoy the view if you wanted to. I'll take that one. Because I love my car - not the car itself, although I really do think it's beautiful - but the freedom that it gives me. I can get in it right now, without any planning or waiting and drive almost anywhere using exactly the route I choose. While sitting behind the wheel, I'm forced to not be able to do anything else than driving. That is a very nice time to think and just be. Some of the most beautiful scenery I've ever seen was in places where the nearest public transport option was a hour's drive away. I can leave stuff in the trunk if I buy it one day and then need it the next day. I also do grocery shopping weekly - carrying 5 bags of food by hand gets old really fast. The car is also where my younger kid's car seat is. I'm pretty sure nobody else would put their kid in there, the shape of the chocolate and cookie crumb mountain is exactly the shape he fits in you know. So, yes, you can do what you described. In fact, you can do it already today, but having a car? There's a reason people buy and repair and like them.
- mozumder 9y ago
  Those things aren't free, though. You're paying $500-$1000/month for the luxury of doing those things, compared to the $100-$150 cost of a monthly transit pass. When you consider the costs, cars just don't have the appeal they used to, and you can spend money elsewhere that'll make you just as happy if not happier, especially as more services orient themselves to remove cars from the picture, such as Amazon & grocery delivery services. Besides, do you want a system that forces the rest of the public to buy cars? The congestion alone should be enough to discourage people from cars.
  - terryf 9y ago
    Yes, of course they aren't free. I also live in a house, that's more expensive than an apartment because I like it more this way. I often don't buy the cheapest food, but the food that I like. I don't want to force cars on anyone - it should be an individual choice of course. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of reasons people want to own cars. It's the choice between working with the existing system to make it better versus demanding that everyone adapts to a new system that you claim is better. Maybe it is, but getting the whole world to change at once to a completely different and in many ways harder system is very un likely to happen.
    - mozumder 9y ago
      > It's the choice between working with the existing system to make it better versus demanding that everyone adapts to a new system that you claim is better. Indeed, which is why we need as a society needs to pay for more rail systems, a tried-and-true mass transit system that's been around a lot longer than the more inefficient cars. Right now roads are such a wasteful government mess that's completely unprofitable. The personal automotive transport system is a failed experiment that society needs to move on from. And we need to stop subsidizing the wasteful and destructive suburban lifestyle. How much more of my money do you want me to pay for your roads so you can have the luxury of riding in comfort? Is there anything else that you would like me to pay for you?
    - deanCommie 9y ago
zuron7 9y ago
If I'm not wrong, there's actually a scheme for Tesla owners to rent out their cars while not in use(still in development). So, I envision these tunnels as part of his broader vision of having mass transit for everyone, except the biggest thing being that the mass transit need not have time tables. That's the worst thing about mass transit. Having to plan your day completely around it. Fine for the most of us, but isn't going to end private transport. I totally see the vision he has. It's a 30 year game he's playing, not a 5 year one.
zardo 9y ago
>Because you are now more dependent on private cars for transport. The video shows an electric rail system, that isn't incompatible with moving larger numbers of people. Look at the high occupancy car at :47. >If people can't sit next to random strangers on the subway or on the bus, they should be seen as dysfunctional and sociopathic. Mental illness is probably not going to disappear any time soon. Viewing them hatefully isn't going to get them to like riding the bus. It's just going to make you a hateful person.
wonderwonder 9y ago
I really don't think cars are going away any time soon for several reasons. Cars offer individuals far more freedom, go anywhere when you want. Also people live in rural areas, I'm not going to wait 3 hours for a bus to take me to my mom's house in the country, I'll just drive. In addition there is probably not a bus that goes there. People go shopping, they don't want to carry on $200 worth of groceries onto public transportation. Finally people have kids. Kids require a plethora of specialized items including car seats. I dont want to put my kid in a car seat a prior kid just urinated in. Kid's are also messy and require snacks and water bottles. People who can afford it are going to take cars. I hope The Boring Company is a rousing success.
- mozumder 9y ago
  We're talking about LA, not rural areas.
- billiam 9y ago
  Guess what rural areas don't have? Traffic. I love the way that Musk hacks the American economy, government subsidies, value system, marketing engine, and the capacity of the public to fall for bullshit, because that is how truly new things get made in this country. But this amusing semi-joke is just reflective of the fact that LA proves car-based transport doesn't scale, no matter who is driving. Mass transit is the answer.
  - wonderwonder 9y ago
    you need a car unless your life plan is just to limit yourself to only urban areas. If you ever want to leave the urban area you will need a car. If I have my own car, even if there is public transportation I will likely take my own car for the convenience of it being my own space. I am not arguing against the need for mass transport but I see no reason we cant have both.
    - rinon 9y ago
      Why not rent a car when you want to go on trips outside of urban areas? Seems far cheaper if you can actually get away without a care in the city.
danellis 9y ago
> Why would you use this instead of a system where you take a neighborhood bus to the local transit station Because I don't want to walk four miles in weather that could be 90 degrees or 9 degrees to get my "neighborhood" bus, and then waste hours of the day because I have to change to other buses (sometimes going in the wrong direction) to get somewhat close to my destination. I especially don't want to do that carrying heavy or fragile things, or in the rain or snow. As long as the US continues to be a sprawl, personal transportation will be important.
losteric 9y ago
Um, what? Tunneling costs are blocking mass transit in high-density regions. Light rail and subways are key to effective public transportation and affordable connected cities. Buses are best for last-minute/first-mile transport. Commoditization of tunnel boring technology around a couple standard sizes for any soil condition would radically reduce subway construction costs around the nation. That same technology could be leveraged for commercial transportation as well. I strongly suspect "tunnels for cars" is just marketing. Elon is known for doing his research, and the research shows that traffic is reduced by getting people off the road... Traffic is the equilibrium of convenience and discomfort, adding roads just puts more people on the road. Making mass transportation more convenient and cheap is vital to reducing traffic... the other piece is zoning for high density to support mass transportation.
FlyingCocoon 9y ago
Think of it with 100year horizon. Where it will outlast Musk. Where all cars are self driven autonomously. Where all cars are electric. We already have all the bits and pieces of it... The boring company is attempting to stitch it all together.