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Seconded. Migrated from Debian to Fedora after Jessie. And to CentOS on my servers. Stretch isn't as bad now, but... I don't think I'm switching from RHEL for a

by kakarot 10y ago

Seconded. Migrated from Debian to Fedora after Jessie. And to CentOS on my servers. Stretch isn't as bad now, but... I don't think I'm switching from RHEL for a long time. So much just works out of the box, including SELinux, and all of the documentation seems to be security-focused.

zokier 10y ago
idk. I have been recently setting up some new RHEL/CentOS systems both at home and work. While the base system and documentation both feel really good, the experience still has been somewhat frustrating to the point that I'm moving to Ubuntu LTS at home. The biggest pain point is the amount of stuff that is missing from the main repos, like: * Python3 * Nginx * ZFS (this I can understand) * LXC RHSCL is supposed to alleviate the pain, but using them also loses one of the big reasons of using RHEL in the first place because RHSCL releases are only supported couple of years. For example for Python3 the RHSCL version is 3.5 and supported until May 2019; even Python.org supports 3.5 series longer than that!
- bubblethink 10y ago
  You would be better off with Ubuntu LTS or Fedora at home. For client usage, RHEL will always feel old within a couple of years of its release. That's just how fast things move on the client side. You may find something like OpenSUSE Leap a better fit since it is a hybrid between LTS and rolling releases.
  - zokier 10y ago
    But it's not that it is old, that I planned for and can live with. The stuff I mentioned was already included in e.g. Ubuntu 12.04 which was released two years before RHEL7 and in Debian 7 which was released a year before RHEL7.
    - bubblethink 10y ago
      All the stuff that you mentioned is already there in some capacity. python3 is at 3.4 in the main channel. SCL would likely have newer versions. SCL is mostly for development. I wouldn't expect crazy long support for the SCL stuff. That's by definition though. Use the main channel for long support. nginx is in epel. zfs is in the zfsonlinux repos. LXC used to be in main channels, but they deprecated it in favour of docker. You can still get it from epel. RHEL + EPEL should cover most of the useful stuff. There are also some multimedia and nvidia driver packages packaged by negativo17 if you really need them.
      - zokier 10y ago
        > python3 is at 3.4 in the main channel Sadly, nope. Only in EPEL. > LXC used to be in main channels, but they deprecated it in favour of docker Docker is hardly a drop-in replacement for LXC. In Debian I can just have both and make my own decisions. > zfs is in the zfsonlinux repos Which reminds me of another missing piece; DKMS Overall your comment feels to confirm my view; RHEL/CentOS installations tend to end up being a frankestein patchwork of different repos with varying degree of support. Please don't take me as a RH/CentOS hater, I do still plan to run CentOS VMs for the software they do support. But I've now learned that I can't easily use it as a default go-to system to run whatever springs to mind.
        bubblethink 10y ago
        > RHEL/CentOS installations tend to end up being a frankestein patchwork of different repos with varying degree of support. Yes, that is kind of true if you need to push the boundaries of RHEL into client/workstation use. However, I've found EPEL to be quite stable and mature. I would say that the quality of packaging is on par with Ubuntu's universe and other auxiliary repositories. Ubuntu makes it less obvious that their non-core packages are not actually supported. EPEL fits sort of in a similar category.
- yjftsjthsd-h 10y ago
  Isn't that what EPEL is for?

by kakarot 10y ago

zokier 10y ago

idk. I have been recently setting up some new RHEL/CentOS systems both at home and work. While the base system and documentation both feel really good, the experience still has been somewhat frustrating to the point that I'm moving to Ubuntu LTS at home. The biggest pain point is the amount of stuff that is missing from the main repos, like: * Python3 * Nginx * ZFS (this I can understand) * LXC RHSCL is supposed to alleviate the pain, but using them also loses one of the big reasons of using RHEL in the first place because RHSCL releases are only supported couple of years. For example for Python3 the RHSCL version is 3.5 and supported until May 2019; even Python.org supports 3.5 series longer than that!

bubblethink 10y ago
You would be better off with Ubuntu LTS or Fedora at home. For client usage, RHEL will always feel old within a couple of years of its release. That's just how fast things move on the client side. You may find something like OpenSUSE Leap a better fit since it is a hybrid between LTS and rolling releases.
- zokier 10y ago
  But it's not that it is old, that I planned for and can live with. The stuff I mentioned was already included in e.g. Ubuntu 12.04 which was released two years before RHEL7 and in Debian 7 which was released a year before RHEL7.
  - bubblethink 10y ago
    All the stuff that you mentioned is already there in some capacity. python3 is at 3.4 in the main channel. SCL would likely have newer versions. SCL is mostly for development. I wouldn't expect crazy long support for the SCL stuff. That's by definition though. Use the main channel for long support. nginx is in epel. zfs is in the zfsonlinux repos. LXC used to be in main channels, but they deprecated it in favour of docker. You can still get it from epel. RHEL + EPEL should cover most of the useful stuff. There are also some multimedia and nvidia driver packages packaged by negativo17 if you really need them.
    - zokier 10y ago
      > python3 is at 3.4 in the main channel Sadly, nope. Only in EPEL. > LXC used to be in main channels, but they deprecated it in favour of docker Docker is hardly a drop-in replacement for LXC. In Debian I can just have both and make my own decisions. > zfs is in the zfsonlinux repos Which reminds me of another missing piece; DKMS Overall your comment feels to confirm my view; RHEL/CentOS installations tend to end up being a frankestein patchwork of different repos with varying degree of support. Please don't take me as a RH/CentOS hater, I do still plan to run CentOS VMs for the software they do support. But I've now learned that I can't easily use it as a default go-to system to run whatever springs to mind.
      - bubblethink 10y ago
        > RHEL/CentOS installations tend to end up being a frankestein patchwork of different repos with varying degree of support. Yes, that is kind of true if you need to push the boundaries of RHEL into client/workstation use. However, I've found EPEL to be quite stable and mature. I would say that the quality of packaging is on par with Ubuntu's universe and other auxiliary repositories. Ubuntu makes it less obvious that their non-core packages are not actually supported. EPEL fits sort of in a similar category.
yjftsjthsd-h 10y ago
Isn't that what EPEL is for?