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What problems do you run into? I've had good luck with a pretty vanilla virtualenv + requirements.txt files, and docker for packaging (great for c libs that my

What problems do you run into? I've had good luck with a pretty vanilla virtualenv + requirements.txt files, and docker for packaging (great for c libs that my python packages call down to).

Rapzid 9y ago
I've worked through most of my packaging and pyenv/virtualenv issues but I must say I found it much more convoluted and painful than any other language I've worked with in the past 6 years. The need for all the virtualenv's makes me sad, and I'm not a huge fan of the shim system. Working on multiple projects that need different versions of a dependency, particularly when your also working on that dependency, can be a pain still. This is very subjective but pipenv was just released THIS YEAR and has over 3k stars on github; clearly there is some general angst out there. But I more meant the ecosystem in general: A "batteries included" language makes me create my own UTC tzinfo implementation so I can get a datetime in UTC... Python's time situation is maddening and by far the worst I've worked with. I'm sure others feel this way because there are a bakers dozen of time libraries trying to fill the gaps. I almost rage quit the industry trying to save and retrieve a UTC datetime from the database with sqlalchemy. Luckily I found Arrow and ArrowType and that's been working well enough for now. On the subject of time this has been open for close to five years? https://bugs.python.org/issue15873 https://bugs.python.org/issue15873 . I get the impression that lots of proposed improvements are languishing like this. sqlalchemy and alembic feel like JUST ONE GUY is working on them. Massive achievement, but the gaps are visible. The module system feels stale; a holdout of a system from different workflow times. Splitting stuff off into separate files for maintainability(including improving multi-dev workflows trying to reduce conflicts) creates some gross imports. It feels like there is a reluctance to evolve the language itself; a lot of enhancements appear to be made via more magic metaprogramming and function usage. super(Cls, self).__init__() comes off as an artifact of this. Not really my cup of tea these days, but I can see how this is very subjective. The propper way to handle generated members with pylint is supposedly a plugin; which almost no projects provide. Type annotations are supposed to go a long way in 3.x, but the prevalence of metaprogramming and lack of tooling awareness has probably defeated more jedi than Darth Vader. boto3 has no official async support even though lambda just released support for Python 3.6. Meanwhile the javascript sdk is shipping with TypeScript definitions and a new promise interface. A lot of this is very subjective(other than perhaps the languishing of certain library areas) of course. To me though, after having worked with a lot of other languages, it just feels like Python is a bit of a ghetto these days. It's like the language world has built north and Python is.. Not living to the north. EDIT: The pipenv announcement thread has some comments that go into more detail on package/project management situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459740 . sjellis and sametmax touch on most of the stuff I've run into.

What problems do you run into? I've had good luck with a pretty vanilla virtualenv + requirements.txt files, and docker for packaging (great for c libs that my python packages call down to).

Rapzid 9y ago

I've worked through most of my packaging and pyenv/virtualenv issues but I must say I found it much more convoluted and painful than any other language I've worked with in the past 6 years. The need for all the virtualenv's makes me sad, and I'm not a huge fan of the shim system. Working on multiple projects that need different versions of a dependency, particularly when your also working on that dependency, can be a pain still. This is very subjective but pipenv was just released THIS YEAR and has over 3k stars on github; clearly there is some general angst out there. But I more meant the ecosystem in general: A "batteries included" language makes me create my own UTC tzinfo implementation so I can get a datetime in UTC... Python's time situation is maddening and by far the worst I've worked with. I'm sure others feel this way because there are a bakers dozen of time libraries trying to fill the gaps. I almost rage quit the industry trying to save and retrieve a UTC datetime from the database with sqlalchemy. Luckily I found Arrow and ArrowType and that's been working well enough for now. On the subject of time this has been open for close to five years? https://bugs.python.org/issue15873 https://bugs.python.org/issue15873 . I get the impression that lots of proposed improvements are languishing like this. sqlalchemy and alembic feel like JUST ONE GUY is working on them. Massive achievement, but the gaps are visible. The module system feels stale; a holdout of a system from different workflow times. Splitting stuff off into separate files for maintainability(including improving multi-dev workflows trying to reduce conflicts) creates some gross imports. It feels like there is a reluctance to evolve the language itself; a lot of enhancements appear to be made via more magic metaprogramming and function usage. super(Cls, self).__init__() comes off as an artifact of this. Not really my cup of tea these days, but I can see how this is very subjective. The propper way to handle generated members with pylint is supposedly a plugin; which almost no projects provide. Type annotations are supposed to go a long way in 3.x, but the prevalence of metaprogramming and lack of tooling awareness has probably defeated more jedi than Darth Vader. boto3 has no official async support even though lambda just released support for Python 3.6. Meanwhile the javascript sdk is shipping with TypeScript definitions and a new promise interface. A lot of this is very subjective(other than perhaps the languishing of certain library areas) of course. To me though, after having worked with a lot of other languages, it just feels like Python is a bit of a ghetto these days. It's like the language world has built north and Python is.. Not living to the north. EDIT: The pipenv announcement thread has some comments that go into more detail on package/project management situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13459740 . sjellis and sametmax touch on most of the stuff I've run into.