5 ms·

One weakness of all public transportation is the lack of personal space. Maybe if someone would have solved that either by more space or some deep psychological

by petra 10y ago

One weakness of all public transportation is the lack of personal space. Maybe if someone would have solved that either by more space or some deep psychological insights, it would become more popular among Americans?

distances 10y ago
I disagree. Europe has many countries with at least the same wish for personal space as the US, and public transport works just fine. I'd suspect a big reason is the car-centric culture, which also gives rise to the image of public transport being only for those who can't afford a car. It's a cultural problem that'll be hard to straighten.
- chejazi 10y ago
  > Europe has many countries with at least the same wish for personal space as the US Maybe this is me being ethnocentric, but it seems the American way of embracing diversity (through political correctness, affirmative action, etc) has come at the cost of craving for isolation and independence from each other.
  - Fricken 10y ago
    The loudest voices I hear against big city life and cultural diversity come from those who have little experience with either. They don't need to try Green Eggs and Ham to know they don't like it.
  - imesh 10y ago
    That's hilarious. Affirmative action created a car culture, not the fact that cars came around when America infrastructure was bring created or that people live far away from where they work. I get it though, you personally crave not being around minorities.
  - imesh 10y ago
    You think people in Iowa are driving because of the huge amounts of minorities?
  - taysic 10y ago
    I don't think those policies have anything to do with how close people want to stand to each other in a subway. Americans simply like space and tend to have a lot of it.
- closeparen 10y ago
  Try any "excellent" public transportation system during commute hours. The lack of personal space isn't misperception. Systems are explicitly planned to have standees, and lots of them, in close quarters. We've gotten acclimated to something much more comfortable, and we get to vote. It's not clear how public transit advocates will convince us to vote to downgrade our lives. Maybe the bicyclists and pedestrians in cities will be able to block suburban drivers from entering.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    OK, but that's like saying "nobody goes to Times Square anymore. It's too crowded". If there was more public transportation, the problems you bring up about personal space would go away.
    - closeparen 10y ago
      The problem stated here isn't "public transit has insufficient ridership," it's "some people don't want to use public transit." When the problem you're trying to solve is "some people aren't in Times Square right now," you might need to engage with the fact that it's crowded. More public transportation, sure, and I'll vote for it every time. Less car infrastructure, and there is no pressure for public transportation to be comfortable or effective because the only way to opt out of it is to move away.
  - cstejerean 10y ago
    I will gladly vote for trains because it takes people off the roads and reduces traffic which makes it easier for me to drive to and from work.
geofft 10y ago
I find that I have plenty of personal space on mass transit as long as there's enough transit. If I'm taking the 2/3 subway (in New York) or the 27-Bryant bus (in SF) at 9 AM on a weekday, it's totally fine. If I'm taking Caltrain southbound at 9 AM on a weekday or the 4/5 towards the Upper West Side at 5:30 PM, it's miserable. That is to say, there's a known solution already: funding.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
komali2 10y ago
For me the main disadvantage is that it takes an hour, comes once an hour, has inaccurate timetables, costs 13$, and stops running at midnight. Hence why I drive from mountain view to San Francisco rather than bother with Caltrain.
- osdiab 10y ago
  It's too bad Caltrain electrification is getting screwed over... But it's even worse that BART was blocked from just going down the peninsula, to the point that we literally went the other way around the bay to get it down to San Jose. Criminally dumb.
  - snotrockets 10y ago
    Having the fine people of the peninsula share the cost of transportation with the hoi poloi of the East Bay is unamerican, hence they opted out of it. Same for the North Bay (original plans had the BART go almost all the way from Petaluma to Gilroy).

by petra 10y ago

distances 10y ago

I disagree. Europe has many countries with at least the same wish for personal space as the US, and public transport works just fine. I'd suspect a big reason is the car-centric culture, which also gives rise to the image of public transport being only for those who can't afford a car. It's a cultural problem that'll be hard to straighten.

chejazi 10y ago
> Europe has many countries with at least the same wish for personal space as the US Maybe this is me being ethnocentric, but it seems the American way of embracing diversity (through political correctness, affirmative action, etc) has come at the cost of craving for isolation and independence from each other.
- Fricken 10y ago
  The loudest voices I hear against big city life and cultural diversity come from those who have little experience with either. They don't need to try Green Eggs and Ham to know they don't like it.
- imesh 10y ago
  That's hilarious. Affirmative action created a car culture, not the fact that cars came around when America infrastructure was bring created or that people live far away from where they work. I get it though, you personally crave not being around minorities.
- imesh 10y ago
  You think people in Iowa are driving because of the huge amounts of minorities?
- taysic 10y ago
  I don't think those policies have anything to do with how close people want to stand to each other in a subway. Americans simply like space and tend to have a lot of it.
closeparen 10y ago
Try any "excellent" public transportation system during commute hours. The lack of personal space isn't misperception. Systems are explicitly planned to have standees, and lots of them, in close quarters. We've gotten acclimated to something much more comfortable, and we get to vote. It's not clear how public transit advocates will convince us to vote to downgrade our lives. Maybe the bicyclists and pedestrians in cities will be able to block suburban drivers from entering.
- stale2002 10y ago
  OK, but that's like saying "nobody goes to Times Square anymore. It's too crowded". If there was more public transportation, the problems you bring up about personal space would go away.
  - closeparen 10y ago
    The problem stated here isn't "public transit has insufficient ridership," it's "some people don't want to use public transit." When the problem you're trying to solve is "some people aren't in Times Square right now," you might need to engage with the fact that it's crowded. More public transportation, sure, and I'll vote for it every time. Less car infrastructure, and there is no pressure for public transportation to be comfortable or effective because the only way to opt out of it is to move away.
- cstejerean 10y ago
  I will gladly vote for trains because it takes people off the roads and reduces traffic which makes it easier for me to drive to and from work.

geofft 10y ago

I find that I have plenty of personal space on mass transit as long as there's enough transit. If I'm taking the 2/3 subway (in New York) or the 27-Bryant bus (in SF) at 9 AM on a weekday, it's totally fine. If I'm taking Caltrain southbound at 9 AM on a weekday or the 4/5 towards the Upper West Side at 5:30 PM, it's miserable. That is to say, there's a known solution already: funding.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

komali2 10y ago

For me the main disadvantage is that it takes an hour, comes once an hour, has inaccurate timetables, costs 13$, and stops running at midnight. Hence why I drive from mountain view to San Francisco rather than bother with Caltrain.

osdiab 10y ago
It's too bad Caltrain electrification is getting screwed over... But it's even worse that BART was blocked from just going down the peninsula, to the point that we literally went the other way around the bay to get it down to San Jose. Criminally dumb.
- snotrockets 10y ago
  Having the fine people of the peninsula share the cost of transportation with the hoi poloi of the East Bay is unamerican, hence they opted out of it. Same for the North Bay (original plans had the BART go almost all the way from Petaluma to Gilroy).