4 ms·

You posted a bunch of headlines by journos, not scientists and expect us to take that as some holy grail of evidence that GW isn't happening. That's nor surpri

You posted a bunch of headlines by journos, not scientists and expect us to take that as some holy grail of evidence that GW isn't happening. That's nor surprising, considering you're a libertarian, but from the perspective of people who live in the real world, it's lunacy.

Turing_Machine 10y ago
"You posted a bunch of headlines by journos" So what? The whole thread is predicated on an "article by a journo". "expect us to take that as some holy grail of evidence that GW isn't happening" Please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks. Far from "expecting you to take it as a "holy grail of evidence", I'm pointing out that these sensationalist scare articles have been around for a long, long time (at least since the time of Malthus in the 1700s), and yet the promised doomsday has never occurred. And far from saying that climate change "isn't happening", I explicitly said "Yes, the earth has been colder than it is now. Many times. It's also been warmer than it is now. Many times." Do you guys feel any guilt at all when you grossly misrepresent someone else's statements, or does the warm glow of virtue you get from Proper Thinking counteract it? "considering you're a libertarian" You act like that's some kind of pejorative.
- m52go 10y ago
  Big props for taking one for the team. Becoming critical of "climate change" just happened to me recently. I've been critical of the usual suspects like foreign policy, finance, media, etc. for a while, but climate change was a sacred cow. Then I read this. https://www.fairobserver.com/more/environment/forgotten-sun-climate-catastrophe-called/ https://www.fairobserver.com/more/environment/forgotten-sun-... Before anyone accuses me of bringing scientism onto HN, realize that never did I call climate change a "hoax." Most intelligent people critical of climate change don't either. Obviously, it's happening...to some degree. I'm merely critical of the mainstream perspective of its causes and effects. And I'm not sure one can ever be too critical in science.
  - lg 10y ago
    this article is from 2012 and its prediction did not come true: http://www.realclimate.org/images/Vahrenholt_en-600x452.jpg http://www.realclimate.org/images/Vahrenholt_en-600x452.jpg source is this solid rebuttal: http://www.countercurrents.org/2016/11/15/record-heat-despite-a-cold-sun/ http://www.countercurrents.org/2016/11/15/record-heat-despit...
  - mikeash 10y ago
    The speed of the current change is unprecedented. Your article makes the standard argument that climate changes in the past and this is more of the same, but it's just not true. Xkcd summed it up nicely: https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/
    - Turing_Machine 10y ago
      Xkcd's chart starts a mere 22,000 years ago. It is not representative of the history of the Earth. To take just one example, I'm pretty sure that the sudden arrival of the Chicxulub "dinosaur killer" asteroid produced a change in Earth's climate that was vastly more devastating and immensely more rapid than anything we're seeing today. "Unprecedented", indeed. Edit: added a few references. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379104003245 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379104... "We revisit the portion of (Nature 391 (1998) 141) devoted to the abrupt temperature increase reconstruction at the Younger Dryas/Preboreal transition...Three quasi-independent approaches employed in this work all give the same result of a +10 °C warming in several decades or less." http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X08000642 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X08... "Here, we report on the second abrupt warming (4 ± 1.5 °C), which occurred at the end of a short lived cooler interval known as the Preboreal Oscillation (11,270 ± 30 B.P.). A rapid snow accumulation increase suggests that the climatic transition may have occurred within a few years." One ten degree event and one 4 degree event. Both much larger than anything we've seen. There have been many others. In fact, it is believed that at least 25 such events took place in the last glacial period alone. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansgaard%E2%80%93Oeschger_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansgaard%E2%80%93Oeschger_eve...

Turing_Machine 10y ago

"You posted a bunch of headlines by journos" So what? The whole thread is predicated on an "article by a journo". "expect us to take that as some holy grail of evidence that GW isn't happening" Please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks. Far from "expecting you to take it as a "holy grail of evidence", I'm pointing out that these sensationalist scare articles have been around for a long, long time (at least since the time of Malthus in the 1700s), and yet the promised doomsday has never occurred. And far from saying that climate change "isn't happening", I explicitly said "Yes, the earth has been colder than it is now. Many times. It's also been warmer than it is now. Many times." Do you guys feel any guilt at all when you grossly misrepresent someone else's statements, or does the warm glow of virtue you get from Proper Thinking counteract it? "considering you're a libertarian" You act like that's some kind of pejorative.

m52go 10y ago
Big props for taking one for the team. Becoming critical of "climate change" just happened to me recently. I've been critical of the usual suspects like foreign policy, finance, media, etc. for a while, but climate change was a sacred cow. Then I read this. https://www.fairobserver.com/more/environment/forgotten-sun-climate-catastrophe-called/ https://www.fairobserver.com/more/environment/forgotten-sun-... Before anyone accuses me of bringing scientism onto HN, realize that never did I call climate change a "hoax." Most intelligent people critical of climate change don't either. Obviously, it's happening...to some degree. I'm merely critical of the mainstream perspective of its causes and effects. And I'm not sure one can ever be too critical in science.
- lg 10y ago
  this article is from 2012 and its prediction did not come true: http://www.realclimate.org/images/Vahrenholt_en-600x452.jpg http://www.realclimate.org/images/Vahrenholt_en-600x452.jpg source is this solid rebuttal: http://www.countercurrents.org/2016/11/15/record-heat-despite-a-cold-sun/ http://www.countercurrents.org/2016/11/15/record-heat-despit...
- mikeash 10y ago
  The speed of the current change is unprecedented. Your article makes the standard argument that climate changes in the past and this is more of the same, but it's just not true. Xkcd summed it up nicely: https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    Xkcd's chart starts a mere 22,000 years ago. It is not representative of the history of the Earth. To take just one example, I'm pretty sure that the sudden arrival of the Chicxulub "dinosaur killer" asteroid produced a change in Earth's climate that was vastly more devastating and immensely more rapid than anything we're seeing today. "Unprecedented", indeed. Edit: added a few references. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379104003245 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379104... "We revisit the portion of (Nature 391 (1998) 141) devoted to the abrupt temperature increase reconstruction at the Younger Dryas/Preboreal transition...Three quasi-independent approaches employed in this work all give the same result of a +10 °C warming in several decades or less." http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X08000642 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X08... "Here, we report on the second abrupt warming (4 ± 1.5 °C), which occurred at the end of a short lived cooler interval known as the Preboreal Oscillation (11,270 ± 30 B.P.). A rapid snow accumulation increase suggests that the climatic transition may have occurred within a few years." One ten degree event and one 4 degree event. Both much larger than anything we've seen. There have been many others. In fact, it is believed that at least 25 such events took place in the last glacial period alone. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansgaard%E2%80%93Oeschger_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansgaard%E2%80%93Oeschger_eve...