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I've never quite understood the predilection towards hatred of the subject of religion, and the persistent nagging claim that it must be eradicated. The world

by mmjaa 10y ago

I've never quite understood the predilection towards hatred of the subject of religion, and the persistent nagging claim that it must be eradicated. The world would be a very hard place if we couldn't just suddenly decide that our description of the universe didn't actually need to make sense, and isn't relevant anyway, "because <deity/concept/idea of some relevance>". Well, it just seems naive and reactive, to me, when I encounter the viewpoint that its all crap and must die. Its a very common thought.

deleted 10y ago
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plandis 10y ago
Is it hatred toward religion or hatred towards some actions religious people take?
- graphitezepp 10y ago
  Persecution of homosexuality and anti abortion crusading, among many other issues historically, may reasonably be seen as abhorrent for many. But as others are saying many go full reductionist and don't separate these actions from the idea as a whole.
aaron-lebo 10y ago
It's very reductionist, too. There's just too much that we simply don't know about ourselves and the universe. To assume that either we will eventually understand it all or that as we learn more we won't find something vaguely religious is arrogant and short-sighted. Eradication of religion is a dumb goal. There are many things people are "religious" about, and there's plenty to fight over other than gods. Religion has and will continue to be a very important part of giving people purpose and creating community. The goal should not be to eradicate that but to bring out the best parts.
Analemma_ 10y ago
> I've never quite understood the predilection towards hatred of the subject of religion, and the persistent nagging claim that it must be eradicated. Most of the really strident atheists and anti-theists grew up in very oppressive religious environments. The parenting of American evangelicals in particular can get pretty horrifying - not to say that it always does, but it can. It's easy to say that these atheists are going overboard, but bear in mind that often they grew up in the worst of the worst. I used to be like you and not understand why they were so loud about it, but then I realized that was partially because I've always been non-religious (my parents just didn't care) and I have not had their experience. I still don't think they're right-- my own attitude toward religion, which I think is the "most correct" one for an atheist to take, is total disinterest and not even taking any negative view-- but I see how they got there.
- mmjaa 10y ago
  I see every religion as an opportunity to claim the founding of a new one. You know, like software; i.e. an expression of the infinite principle. So most of the hassle is just cultural, in my opinion, and if religion is killed, culture will be next, i.e. literature, i.e. the idea beyond the horizon, a sunset on the human mind and imagine and desire to conquer the universe, infinite and finite and all the space between.
- deleted 10y ago
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- kirse 10y ago
  very oppressive religious environments Arguably the definition of "oppressed" has shifted these days. The vast majority of these "oppressive religious" upbringings that supposedly turned someone atheist rarely sound like Frederick Douglass' autobiography and sound more like a lot of angsty venting over some over-protective parents. At least for Christian households, Paul writes about this to parents in Colossians -- "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged." -- but the blame for creating a strident atheist is generally on both sides of the relationship. It's firstly on parents for being overbearing, but also on the adult children who fail to forgive and honor their parents as they mature... The ironic thing is that the atheists who are unable to forgive and are still deeply resentful/angry about their oppressive religious upbringing are the ones who are still chained to the very thing from which they wanted to be free. Not that I wish anyone would be free from truly understanding the gospel of grace, but simply a matter of fact.
JBReefer 10y ago
Scott Alexander has a great breakdown of the social causes of this opinion: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/
legolas2412 10y ago
Sure, if delusion keeps you happy. It also kills scientific temper and prohibits progress. I am fine if religious people don't indoctrinate their children. Don't kill their curiosity of the world with lies.
- DougN7 10y ago
  So you blindly accept the magical exploding grapefruit theory of the universe? It's easy to mock anyone's views. Doesn't make it right.
  - legolas2412 10y ago
    No, I read about how they come to the conclusion. Sure, I didn't verify it with my own observations but you could do that. But atleast the answer isn't - "It's written in a 2000 year old book that a lot of people believe is true. If you question it we will physically beat you and socially humiliate you".
    - mmjaa 10y ago
      Just wait 2000 years. You'll get there eventually.
    - DougN7 9y ago
      > "If you question it we will ... socially humiliate you" The irony is quite amazing.

by mmjaa 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

plandis 10y ago

Is it hatred toward religion or hatred towards some actions religious people take?

graphitezepp 10y ago
Persecution of homosexuality and anti abortion crusading, among many other issues historically, may reasonably be seen as abhorrent for many. But as others are saying many go full reductionist and don't separate these actions from the idea as a whole.

aaron-lebo 10y ago

It's very reductionist, too. There's just too much that we simply don't know about ourselves and the universe. To assume that either we will eventually understand it all or that as we learn more we won't find something vaguely religious is arrogant and short-sighted. Eradication of religion is a dumb goal. There are many things people are "religious" about, and there's plenty to fight over other than gods. Religion has and will continue to be a very important part of giving people purpose and creating community. The goal should not be to eradicate that but to bring out the best parts.

Analemma_ 10y ago

> I've never quite understood the predilection towards hatred of the subject of religion, and the persistent nagging claim that it must be eradicated. Most of the really strident atheists and anti-theists grew up in very oppressive religious environments. The parenting of American evangelicals in particular can get pretty horrifying - not to say that it always does, but it can. It's easy to say that these atheists are going overboard, but bear in mind that often they grew up in the worst of the worst. I used to be like you and not understand why they were so loud about it, but then I realized that was partially because I've always been non-religious (my parents just didn't care) and I have not had their experience. I still don't think they're right-- my own attitude toward religion, which I think is the "most correct" one for an atheist to take, is total disinterest and not even taking any negative view-- but I see how they got there.

mmjaa 10y ago
I see every religion as an opportunity to claim the founding of a new one. You know, like software; i.e. an expression of the infinite principle. So most of the hassle is just cultural, in my opinion, and if religion is killed, culture will be next, i.e. literature, i.e. the idea beyond the horizon, a sunset on the human mind and imagine and desire to conquer the universe, infinite and finite and all the space between.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kirse 10y ago
very oppressive religious environments Arguably the definition of "oppressed" has shifted these days. The vast majority of these "oppressive religious" upbringings that supposedly turned someone atheist rarely sound like Frederick Douglass' autobiography and sound more like a lot of angsty venting over some over-protective parents. At least for Christian households, Paul writes about this to parents in Colossians -- "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged." -- but the blame for creating a strident atheist is generally on both sides of the relationship. It's firstly on parents for being overbearing, but also on the adult children who fail to forgive and honor their parents as they mature... The ironic thing is that the atheists who are unable to forgive and are still deeply resentful/angry about their oppressive religious upbringing are the ones who are still chained to the very thing from which they wanted to be free. Not that I wish anyone would be free from truly understanding the gospel of grace, but simply a matter of fact.

JBReefer 10y ago

Scott Alexander has a great breakdown of the social causes of this opinion: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/

legolas2412 10y ago

Sure, if delusion keeps you happy. It also kills scientific temper and prohibits progress. I am fine if religious people don't indoctrinate their children. Don't kill their curiosity of the world with lies.

DougN7 10y ago
So you blindly accept the magical exploding grapefruit theory of the universe? It's easy to mock anyone's views. Doesn't make it right.
- legolas2412 10y ago
  No, I read about how they come to the conclusion. Sure, I didn't verify it with my own observations but you could do that. But atleast the answer isn't - "It's written in a 2000 year old book that a lot of people believe is true. If you question it we will physically beat you and socially humiliate you".
  - mmjaa 10y ago
    Just wait 2000 years. You'll get there eventually.
  - DougN7 9y ago
    > "If you question it we will ... socially humiliate you" The irony is quite amazing.