5 ms·

Do you really think he should be in prison for intellectual property infringement?

kchoudhu 9y ago
His theft (supposedly) amounts to nine figures. The last time something on this magnitude happened was during the financial crisis, and people were (rightly or not) braying for bankers to go to prison. Are you one of these people?
waqf 9y ago
For nine-figure fraud? What would you propose instead? (It's fraud when you take advantage by ignoring the established legal rules that everyone else is playing by, however suboptimal those rules are.)
- hyperbovine 9y ago
  Exactly. People routinely get jail time for three orders of magnitude less fraud.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    Someone went to prison for stealing $31 in candy bars [1]. At least he only got 2 years: he faced life in prison. 1: http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/07/candy_thief_and_habitual_offen.html http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/07/candy_thief_an...
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mattmanser 9y ago
It's much worse in terms of $$$ compared to most muggings, why shouldn't it be a long term sentence? This is one of the major disconnects in modern society, stealing huge sums of money by rich middle aged white guys is a minor slap on the wrists but stealing a few dollars by young, black guys is let's send them to the slammer and throw away the key. It's so blatant and ingrained in the system that you can't even see it.
- woah 9y ago
  The difference is the use of violence to threaten someone's life, as opposed to moving some numbers on a screen.
  - vacri 9y ago
    However, plenty of white-collar crime has physical effects. More than a few embezzled retirement funds have led to suicides, for example. How do you tell someone that a store clerk robbed at knifepoint is much worse than having their retirement nest-egg evaporate because of someone they haven't even met? Serious white-collar crime should be pursued and punished much more than it currently is.
  - EpicEng 9y ago
    I would happily get smacked around if you promised to 'move around' some significant numbers into my banking account.
- kinghajj 9y ago
  An obvious difference between IP theft and muggings, however, is that the later also entails threats of violence (and sometimes even assault & battery). That's why robbery is generally considered more heinous than burglary, where the victims are typically not present or asleep. I'd agree though that some sort of dollar figure should be attached to the psychological trauma of being mugged, so that great-enough white-collar crimes can also lead to imprisonment.
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beedogs 9y ago
Absolutely.
mrlatinos 9y ago
Yes
tdb7893 9y ago
What's your opinion on what the punishment should be?
hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
> intellectual property infringement? I believe that's a deliberate attempt to illogically equate what Levandowski is being accused of, which is duplicitous, pre-meditated behavior to milk Google out of 100+ million dollars, then take Google's technology to a competitor for another multi-hundred million payout, with something like unintentional patent infringement. I absolutely believe that if Levandowski is guilty of what he is being accused of that he deserves jail time.
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JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
There are people in prison for stealing petty items, how would you propose someone that steals something worth millions be punished? Should the fact that it is an idea and information and not a tangible item make a difference?
uzoodoo 9y ago
> Do you really think he should be in prison for intellectual property infringement? This is loaded language. When you say "intellectual property infringement" people think of implementing something that violates some vague patent somewhere, or some other frivolous thing. This is completely different - he stole gigabytes worth of documents from his employer. It's not "infringement". It's theft, plain and simple.
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maverick_iceman 9y ago
Martha Stewart went to jail for making ~$400,000 in insider trading, a far less serious offense.
- phonon 9y ago
  Actually, they dropped that charge. (Apparently, even if what they thought was true, it would not be considered insider trading legally.). She went to prison for "lying" to investigators about the reasons the sold the stock. 18 U.S.C. § 1001

His theft (supposedly) amounts to nine figures. The last time something on this magnitude happened was during the financial crisis, and people were (rightly or not) braying for bankers to go to prison. Are you one of these people?

waqf 9y ago

For nine-figure fraud? What would you propose instead? (It's fraud when you take advantage by ignoring the established legal rules that everyone else is playing by, however suboptimal those rules are.)

hyperbovine 9y ago
Exactly. People routinely get jail time for three orders of magnitude less fraud.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Someone went to prison for stealing $31 in candy bars [1]. At least he only got 2 years: he faced life in prison. 1: http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/07/candy_thief_and_habitual_offen.html http://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2016/07/candy_thief_an...
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mattmanser 9y ago

It's much worse in terms of $$$ compared to most muggings, why shouldn't it be a long term sentence? This is one of the major disconnects in modern society, stealing huge sums of money by rich middle aged white guys is a minor slap on the wrists but stealing a few dollars by young, black guys is let's send them to the slammer and throw away the key. It's so blatant and ingrained in the system that you can't even see it.

woah 9y ago
The difference is the use of violence to threaten someone's life, as opposed to moving some numbers on a screen.
- vacri 9y ago
  However, plenty of white-collar crime has physical effects. More than a few embezzled retirement funds have led to suicides, for example. How do you tell someone that a store clerk robbed at knifepoint is much worse than having their retirement nest-egg evaporate because of someone they haven't even met? Serious white-collar crime should be pursued and punished much more than it currently is.
- EpicEng 9y ago
  I would happily get smacked around if you promised to 'move around' some significant numbers into my banking account.
kinghajj 9y ago
An obvious difference between IP theft and muggings, however, is that the later also entails threats of violence (and sometimes even assault & battery). That's why robbery is generally considered more heinous than burglary, where the victims are typically not present or asleep. I'd agree though that some sort of dollar figure should be attached to the psychological trauma of being mugged, so that great-enough white-collar crimes can also lead to imprisonment.
- deleted 9y ago
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deleted 9y ago

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beedogs 9y ago

Absolutely.

mrlatinos 9y ago

Yes

tdb7893 9y ago

What's your opinion on what the punishment should be?

hn_throwaway_99 9y ago

> intellectual property infringement? I believe that's a deliberate attempt to illogically equate what Levandowski is being accused of, which is duplicitous, pre-meditated behavior to milk Google out of 100+ million dollars, then take Google's technology to a competitor for another multi-hundred million payout, with something like unintentional patent infringement. I absolutely believe that if Levandowski is guilty of what he is being accused of that he deserves jail time.

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JohnJamesRambo 9y ago

There are people in prison for stealing petty items, how would you propose someone that steals something worth millions be punished? Should the fact that it is an idea and information and not a tangible item make a difference?

uzoodoo 9y ago

> Do you really think he should be in prison for intellectual property infringement? This is loaded language. When you say "intellectual property infringement" people think of implementing something that violates some vague patent somewhere, or some other frivolous thing. This is completely different - he stole gigabytes worth of documents from his employer. It's not "infringement". It's theft, plain and simple.

deleted 9y ago

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maverick_iceman 9y ago

Martha Stewart went to jail for making ~$400,000 in insider trading, a far less serious offense.

phonon 9y ago
Actually, they dropped that charge. (Apparently, even if what they thought was true, it would not be considered insider trading legally.). She went to prison for "lying" to investigators about the reasons the sold the stock. 18 U.S.C. § 1001