6 ms·

Yea, I agree the problem is not auctioning seats high enough. But the proximate issue is that United didn't offer cash, but $800 in United Fun Bux that are wor

by zeroer 9y ago

Yea, I agree the problem is not auctioning seats high enough. But the proximate issue is that United didn't offer cash, but $800 in United Fun Bux that are worthless for most people. The vouchers they were offering were only valid at dates United decided. The vouchers expired after a year. And they are offered in coupons for which you can only use one coupon per flight, and the excess value is lost. Practically all news outlets are reporting that "United offered $800 in compensation", but the reality is that it's closer to $0 in compensation. It's disingenuous to call it "compensation". A better move on the airline's part would be to offer some amount of airline credit, and then half that in cold, hard cash, at least up to $2,700 credit / $1,350 cash, which is what they have to give you for an involuntary bump.

mikeash 9y ago
Yes, the voucher thing is nonsense. I've been on overbooked flights before where I could have easily taken the next flight instead. I never volunteer, because the vouchers are worthless to me. Offer me cash and I'll often be first in line.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  The only time I've volunteered to be bumped was when BA offered $700 in cash (technically I got a prepaid VISA card) and a free hotel+meals. That may be due to the EU though (there are passenger rights regulations about compensation for delays caused by the airline)
- ganley 9y ago
  Back in the days when I traveled a lot, I would ask for some sort of on-the-spot compensation - usually, put me in first/business class on the rebooked flight. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not.
- iLoch 9y ago
  You can ask them to pay you in cash as long as you don't accept the offer before hand. They're legally required to compensate you with cash if you ask.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Surely they would just say "thanks, but no" and keep looking for suckers who will take a voucher?
    - hueving 9y ago
      Where "suckers" are people that don't like what you like? I like to travel so I would rather take the $1000 voucher than wait for a cash offer that someone like you would jump on before I could get a chance. I've taken in over $5,000 of free air travel over the years and always used it to visit family and see places I wouldn't have otherwise. In the meantime people thinking like you got nothing because it was a "sucker's" deal. I suggest you look into the study of economics and pricing to understand how people can get different levels of value from things. The you might understand why auction systems like that aren't magically lining your pockets with gold.
linkregister 9y ago
Vouchers like that are egregious. Now that it's too late, United is now offering up to $10k if they can't get someone to volunteer for less.
- overgryphon 9y ago
  Up to 10k in vouchers. I don't even know how someone with a non-travel job would use that many coupons in a year.
  - FireBeyond 9y ago
    A lot more easily when you realize what a Y-class economy fare costs (Boston to Hawaii next week? $2700+)... Vouchers are typically only valid for full fare unrestricted economy fares or better, not V-class discount fares (display details when you browse your next flight).
    - tarlinian 9y ago
      This is simply not true...I've gotten these vouchers and used them and sure as hell wasn't buying y-class tickets.
  - ajdlinux 9y ago
    You could trivially spend it on a single international holiday if you felt like flying in business or first class...
    - spiraldancing 9y ago
      Actually no, you can't, because they limit how much you can apply to a single flight. To use up $10k in vouchers, it's likely you'd need to make 20-100 flights, before they expired in a year.
      - phil21 9y ago
        Where is this information coming from? I've received large (not $10k) vouchers from major airlines before, and the only restriction is the expiration date. They are effectively the same as cash for that airline, and I have yet to see a VDB voucher that is significantly restricted. Airlines do give away a lot of "good will" certificates during irrops (e.g. weather events) to upset customers, which function more like coupons than traditional vouchers. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but checking with a few friends who between us fly all the major US carriers - VDB vouchers are effectively airline cash with an expiration date.
maherbeg 9y ago
You can actually ask for cash. Most people don't realize it's an option but they will give you a cashier's check on the spot.
- closeparen 9y ago
  That's if you're getting involuntarily bumped. Far as I know, if you volunteer, you can only get vouchers.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kilotaras 9y ago
    There's nothing prohibiting you from asking for cash and there's no law that prohibits airline from giving it to you.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
hueving 9y ago
Calling airline vouchers 'worthless to most people' is pretty stupid. The vast majority of the population would love to travel more and is constrained mainly by their budget. The proof of this is how Delta never seems to have problems and they constantly offer Delta dollars.
- ManlyBread 9y ago
  And then you have guys like me, who fly very rarely and only if no other options are available. Any voucher tied to flying is inherently worthless, because not only I've lost a lot of time but also the whole point of flying - being able to move quickly from one place to another - is defeated by the fact that I'm now stuck in the airport. To top that off, if this happened during a holiday it means I'm getting a bad deal anyway - if I'd want money I wouldn't take vacation days in the first place.
  - hueving 9y ago
    Then you wouldn't accept the bid. That's the entire point of an auction system.
- nommm-nommm 9y ago
  Vast majority of the population wants to travel more but, of all things, the cost of a plane ticket is holding them back? No, this is not true. I travel for pleasure about once a year. I can travel more if I wanted to, finances don't hold me back, but once a year is enough for me. Traveling for vacation is usually pretty fun but at the same time just stressful enough that I wouldn't want to do it more than once a year. Airplane travel is really inconvenient. Plane tickets are just a small part of the cost of a vacation so a free ticket isn't magically going to make them afford extra travel. United isn't paying them for their hotel, rental car, and activities they are going to do when they go on this extra vacation. Even if you do make use of the vouchers, you better hope that United flies to that place you want to go and you have enough time off saved up at work and your schedule works out to use that voucher before it expires. I know you get a year but people have schedules and usually only have windows where it works out to take vacation. If you are a business traveler you better hope you actually like traveling for pleasure.
pavlov 9y ago
In the European Union, airlines are forbidden from offering vouchers as compensation for overbooking. They must pay cash. Simple solution that fixed a consumer-hostile approach adopted by a cartel of companies. Sadly, the EU rarely gets credit for the great number of consumer protections it has established; instead people like to rant about egregious regulations that either don't exist or have been grossly misrepresented.
- brango 9y ago
  Where "people" == right wing press
nommm-nommm 9y ago
>$800 in United Fun Bux Yeah, exactly. They damn well know there is a 90+% chance you aren't going to be able to redeem it. Literally. http://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/travel-wise-donrsquot-take-that-airline-voucher-mdash-go-for-cash/ http://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/travel-wise-donrsquo... >Redemption rates on vouchers hover somewhere between 5 percent and 8 percent

by zeroer 9y ago

mikeash 9y ago

Yes, the voucher thing is nonsense. I've been on overbooked flights before where I could have easily taken the next flight instead. I never volunteer, because the vouchers are worthless to me. Offer me cash and I'll often be first in line.

kalleboo 9y ago
The only time I've volunteered to be bumped was when BA offered $700 in cash (technically I got a prepaid VISA card) and a free hotel+meals. That may be due to the EU though (there are passenger rights regulations about compensation for delays caused by the airline)
ganley 9y ago
Back in the days when I traveled a lot, I would ask for some sort of on-the-spot compensation - usually, put me in first/business class on the rebooked flight. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not.
iLoch 9y ago
You can ask them to pay you in cash as long as you don't accept the offer before hand. They're legally required to compensate you with cash if you ask.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Surely they would just say "thanks, but no" and keep looking for suckers who will take a voucher?
  - hueving 9y ago
    Where "suckers" are people that don't like what you like? I like to travel so I would rather take the $1000 voucher than wait for a cash offer that someone like you would jump on before I could get a chance. I've taken in over $5,000 of free air travel over the years and always used it to visit family and see places I wouldn't have otherwise. In the meantime people thinking like you got nothing because it was a "sucker's" deal. I suggest you look into the study of economics and pricing to understand how people can get different levels of value from things. The you might understand why auction systems like that aren't magically lining your pockets with gold.

linkregister 9y ago

Vouchers like that are egregious. Now that it's too late, United is now offering up to $10k if they can't get someone to volunteer for less.

overgryphon 9y ago
Up to 10k in vouchers. I don't even know how someone with a non-travel job would use that many coupons in a year.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  A lot more easily when you realize what a Y-class economy fare costs (Boston to Hawaii next week? $2700+)... Vouchers are typically only valid for full fare unrestricted economy fares or better, not V-class discount fares (display details when you browse your next flight).
  - tarlinian 9y ago
    This is simply not true...I've gotten these vouchers and used them and sure as hell wasn't buying y-class tickets.
- ajdlinux 9y ago
  You could trivially spend it on a single international holiday if you felt like flying in business or first class...
  - spiraldancing 9y ago
    Actually no, you can't, because they limit how much you can apply to a single flight. To use up $10k in vouchers, it's likely you'd need to make 20-100 flights, before they expired in a year.
    - phil21 9y ago
      Where is this information coming from? I've received large (not $10k) vouchers from major airlines before, and the only restriction is the expiration date. They are effectively the same as cash for that airline, and I have yet to see a VDB voucher that is significantly restricted. Airlines do give away a lot of "good will" certificates during irrops (e.g. weather events) to upset customers, which function more like coupons than traditional vouchers. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but checking with a few friends who between us fly all the major US carriers - VDB vouchers are effectively airline cash with an expiration date.

maherbeg 9y ago

You can actually ask for cash. Most people don't realize it's an option but they will give you a cashier's check on the spot.

closeparen 9y ago
That's if you're getting involuntarily bumped. Far as I know, if you volunteer, you can only get vouchers.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kilotaras 9y ago
  There's nothing prohibiting you from asking for cash and there's no law that prohibits airline from giving it to you.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

hueving 9y ago

Calling airline vouchers 'worthless to most people' is pretty stupid. The vast majority of the population would love to travel more and is constrained mainly by their budget. The proof of this is how Delta never seems to have problems and they constantly offer Delta dollars.

ManlyBread 9y ago
And then you have guys like me, who fly very rarely and only if no other options are available. Any voucher tied to flying is inherently worthless, because not only I've lost a lot of time but also the whole point of flying - being able to move quickly from one place to another - is defeated by the fact that I'm now stuck in the airport. To top that off, if this happened during a holiday it means I'm getting a bad deal anyway - if I'd want money I wouldn't take vacation days in the first place.
- hueving 9y ago
  Then you wouldn't accept the bid. That's the entire point of an auction system.
nommm-nommm 9y ago
Vast majority of the population wants to travel more but, of all things, the cost of a plane ticket is holding them back? No, this is not true. I travel for pleasure about once a year. I can travel more if I wanted to, finances don't hold me back, but once a year is enough for me. Traveling for vacation is usually pretty fun but at the same time just stressful enough that I wouldn't want to do it more than once a year. Airplane travel is really inconvenient. Plane tickets are just a small part of the cost of a vacation so a free ticket isn't magically going to make them afford extra travel. United isn't paying them for their hotel, rental car, and activities they are going to do when they go on this extra vacation. Even if you do make use of the vouchers, you better hope that United flies to that place you want to go and you have enough time off saved up at work and your schedule works out to use that voucher before it expires. I know you get a year but people have schedules and usually only have windows where it works out to take vacation. If you are a business traveler you better hope you actually like traveling for pleasure.

pavlov 9y ago

In the European Union, airlines are forbidden from offering vouchers as compensation for overbooking. They must pay cash. Simple solution that fixed a consumer-hostile approach adopted by a cartel of companies. Sadly, the EU rarely gets credit for the great number of consumer protections it has established; instead people like to rant about egregious regulations that either don't exist or have been grossly misrepresented.

brango 9y ago
Where "people" == right wing press

nommm-nommm 9y ago

>$800 in United Fun Bux Yeah, exactly. They damn well know there is a 90+% chance you aren't going to be able to redeem it. Literally. http://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/travel-wise-donrsquot-take-that-airline-voucher-mdash-go-for-cash/ http://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/travel-wise-donrsquo... >Redemption rates on vouchers hover somewhere between 5 percent and 8 percent