5 ms·

I wonder if the study went deeper into the different types of "fired". Things like: * Your entire team is being cut because it's not generating enough revenue

by xexers 9y ago

I wonder if the study went deeper into the different types of "fired". Things like: * Your entire team is being cut because it's not generating enough revenue * No one likes you * your position can, and will, be outsourced to India * you are incompetent at your position I feel like there would be different levels of upset based on those things.

kazinator 9y ago
The last one is best, of course. "Why on earth did they fire a hot shot like me? They are crazy." :)
city41 9y ago
I'd argue several of those would be classified as layoffs, and my hunch is layoffs sting far less.
Consultant32452 9y ago
With the requisite of I'm an anecdote and anecdote != data.... I've been both divorced and fired. I got fired because my position was outsourced to India. I got divorced because nobody liked me :). The firing was basically nothing. I think the key difference, for me as an individual, is that I'm not a "lifer." I'm generally well liked in my jobs and get regular raises and promotions, but I'm not emotionally attached to the vision or whatever. In addition to that I happen to be the type of person who keeps a hefty emergency savings and all that. Financially speaking getting fired was a minor nuisance. I had another job within a month. Getting divorced was really tough. It was an existential crisis. One day I was one thing, a married man with a child. The next day I was this completely different person, a bachelor with half a child. I didn't have ANY single friends, or childless friends who could do adult things when my daughter was with my ex-wife. I had to re-create who I was almost from the ground up. The key factor, for me, is the "lifer" status. I was a lifer in my marriage, but have never been for a job.
- cableshaft 9y ago
  You do not have to be emotionally attached to a job for it to be negatively effected by the job being terminated. The transition from income to no income can have chain effect on all other aspects of your life, especially if it usually takes you time to find your next job (a foreign concept to SV types, probably, but less so for other industries and parts of the country). I went through layoffs four times in a row after working at each one for less than two years. Each time it was due to a downturn in the company due to poor executive decisions (in hindsight) or bad timing with the market. I actually started thinking I was cursed, and stopped taking as many chances because I saw too many companies struggle and fail up close and personal. There was also a period of unemployment in between each one, and my finances took a beating each time (seemed like I had only just recovered when the rug got pulled out from under me again). It sucked. I'm still struggling in some ways as a result of it, years later.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    As the other responder commented, I think it's about identity rather than the job itself. I imagine if I'd had the same kind of experience you had with multiple layoffs and all that I would have suffered some severe depression. One layoff didn't really impact me, but four times in quick succession would definitely wear on me.
    - wolco 9y ago
      In a way it might be a good thing if you have worked in the same place for years and wanted to browse around the industry picking up new skills. You have built in reasons why you left each position so that shouldn't work against you when looking for a new job. Hopefully you had some payout each time that could earn you more than you would have during that period. Hopefully you had a chance to retool and reinvent yourself.
- slantaclaus 9y ago
  There was a downsizing recently at my company and I remember getting scolded for using the term "fired" instead of "laid off" when talking about the people who were leaving the company. Apparently the terms are different enough to irk some people when mixed and matched.
  - katzgrau 9y ago
    "Fired" usually implies discipline/performance issues with the employee - it's on them. "Laid off" usually means it was out of the employee's hands. People sometimes use them interchangeably, but it's a courtesy to say "laid off" if someone is simply gone because of a budget cut/re-org/merger/acquisition.
    - throwaway75757 9y ago
      Fired can also be because of culture fit issues; it just means the employee had discipline/performance issues within that company's culture.
      - theoh 9y ago
        A single dysfunctional manager can do the trick, also -- or a bad personality interaction with a manager.
- evincarofautumn 9y ago
  Simply put: it’s much harder to cope with a blow to your identity than merely your situation.
- ovulator 9y ago
  I'm with you there, I've been laid off multiple times. Within a month I'm somewhere else and everything is fine. I've been divorced with a kid. It's been over a year and I'm still in therapy. My identity was shattered. Like you, I have never defined myself by my job, it was what I did to provide for my ... family. Divorce hit me way harder financially as well than job loss. No job every took 50% of my assets and future assets with them.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm about 5 years past mine and there's still things I struggle with in relationships. I'm sorry to be cliche but time does heal all wounds. Doesn't mean there won't still be scars, but it does get better over time. It's perfectly normal and healthy for you to havae a period of mourning for the life you lost. Best of luck to you.
cortesoft 9y ago
Yeah, I have been 'fired' twice when the company I was working for at the time started to go out of business. It did not upset me at all, because it was nothing personal against me. Also, being able to find new work right away probably helped, too.
user5994461 9y ago
* you just interviewed with the shop across the street who offered you double, got fired right before you could spread the good news * your project never had any customer, it was finally decided to kill it after 2 years * your project, oh wait, you had no project to work on. What were you doing this past year? No even you can tell. * you got replaced by a cheaper developer who's in his twenties, probably right out of a bootcamp. * you were at the bottom of the stack ranking. * your manager doesn't like you and he's got fire power. * the team was disbanded. half the guys are moving to a new project, half the guys are laid off. you were in the bad half. * no more budget to pay salaries. Sorry guys.

by xexers 9y ago

kazinator 9y ago

The last one is best, of course. "Why on earth did they fire a hot shot like me? They are crazy." :)

city41 9y ago

I'd argue several of those would be classified as layoffs, and my hunch is layoffs sting far less.

Consultant32452 9y ago

With the requisite of I'm an anecdote and anecdote != data.... I've been both divorced and fired. I got fired because my position was outsourced to India. I got divorced because nobody liked me :). The firing was basically nothing. I think the key difference, for me as an individual, is that I'm not a "lifer." I'm generally well liked in my jobs and get regular raises and promotions, but I'm not emotionally attached to the vision or whatever. In addition to that I happen to be the type of person who keeps a hefty emergency savings and all that. Financially speaking getting fired was a minor nuisance. I had another job within a month. Getting divorced was really tough. It was an existential crisis. One day I was one thing, a married man with a child. The next day I was this completely different person, a bachelor with half a child. I didn't have ANY single friends, or childless friends who could do adult things when my daughter was with my ex-wife. I had to re-create who I was almost from the ground up. The key factor, for me, is the "lifer" status. I was a lifer in my marriage, but have never been for a job.

cableshaft 9y ago
You do not have to be emotionally attached to a job for it to be negatively effected by the job being terminated. The transition from income to no income can have chain effect on all other aspects of your life, especially if it usually takes you time to find your next job (a foreign concept to SV types, probably, but less so for other industries and parts of the country). I went through layoffs four times in a row after working at each one for less than two years. Each time it was due to a downturn in the company due to poor executive decisions (in hindsight) or bad timing with the market. I actually started thinking I was cursed, and stopped taking as many chances because I saw too many companies struggle and fail up close and personal. There was also a period of unemployment in between each one, and my finances took a beating each time (seemed like I had only just recovered when the rug got pulled out from under me again). It sucked. I'm still struggling in some ways as a result of it, years later.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  As the other responder commented, I think it's about identity rather than the job itself. I imagine if I'd had the same kind of experience you had with multiple layoffs and all that I would have suffered some severe depression. One layoff didn't really impact me, but four times in quick succession would definitely wear on me.
  - wolco 9y ago
    In a way it might be a good thing if you have worked in the same place for years and wanted to browse around the industry picking up new skills. You have built in reasons why you left each position so that shouldn't work against you when looking for a new job. Hopefully you had some payout each time that could earn you more than you would have during that period. Hopefully you had a chance to retool and reinvent yourself.
slantaclaus 9y ago
There was a downsizing recently at my company and I remember getting scolded for using the term "fired" instead of "laid off" when talking about the people who were leaving the company. Apparently the terms are different enough to irk some people when mixed and matched.
- katzgrau 9y ago
  "Fired" usually implies discipline/performance issues with the employee - it's on them. "Laid off" usually means it was out of the employee's hands. People sometimes use them interchangeably, but it's a courtesy to say "laid off" if someone is simply gone because of a budget cut/re-org/merger/acquisition.
  - throwaway75757 9y ago
    Fired can also be because of culture fit issues; it just means the employee had discipline/performance issues within that company's culture.
    - theoh 9y ago
      A single dysfunctional manager can do the trick, also -- or a bad personality interaction with a manager.
evincarofautumn 9y ago
Simply put: it’s much harder to cope with a blow to your identity than merely your situation.
ovulator 9y ago
I'm with you there, I've been laid off multiple times. Within a month I'm somewhere else and everything is fine. I've been divorced with a kid. It's been over a year and I'm still in therapy. My identity was shattered. Like you, I have never defined myself by my job, it was what I did to provide for my ... family. Divorce hit me way harder financially as well than job loss. No job every took 50% of my assets and future assets with them.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm about 5 years past mine and there's still things I struggle with in relationships. I'm sorry to be cliche but time does heal all wounds. Doesn't mean there won't still be scars, but it does get better over time. It's perfectly normal and healthy for you to havae a period of mourning for the life you lost. Best of luck to you.

cortesoft 9y ago

Yeah, I have been 'fired' twice when the company I was working for at the time started to go out of business. It did not upset me at all, because it was nothing personal against me. Also, being able to find new work right away probably helped, too.

user5994461 9y ago

* you just interviewed with the shop across the street who offered you double, got fired right before you could spread the good news * your project never had any customer, it was finally decided to kill it after 2 years * your project, oh wait, you had no project to work on. What were you doing this past year? No even you can tell. * you got replaced by a cheaper developer who's in his twenties, probably right out of a bootcamp. * you were at the bottom of the stack ranking. * your manager doesn't like you and he's got fire power. * the team was disbanded. half the guys are moving to a new project, half the guys are laid off. you were in the bad half. * no more budget to pay salaries. Sorry guys.