4 ms·

What's up with the massive drop in happiness of fired women between years 3 and 4 post-firing? As a group they go from happiest score of any cohort-year pairing

What's up with the massive drop in happiness of fired women between years 3 and 4 post-firing? As a group they go from happiest score of any cohort-year pairing to least happy. Also I wonder the extent to which the male-female discrepancy in the data (men do meaningfully worse than women post-firing, per the graph) is driven by the continued decline in blue-collar, traditionally male jobs, or whether another factor explains it (e.g., women tend to verbalize stress with their friends more consistently, thus they process the grief of getting fired faster/better).

27182818284 10y ago
Yeah the article doesn't have a lot of details. Is there a journal paper somewhere? I'd be curious to read it. A cursory search didn't turn anything up for me.
btkramer9 10y ago
I've never been married but the other data surprised me too. Both men and women experience increased happiness after a divorce or their significant other died.
- civilian 10y ago
  It's the year of divorice/widowhood that is the low mark, but afterwards people recover. Doesn't that make sense? That are still in the negatives as far as life satisfaction goes. My close friend killed himself nearly 4 years ago. The first year was really bad, the second year was just a little better. And now, ya know, I'm mostly back to myself. Life satisfaction isn't a finite resource that you can only lose, you can rebuild it.
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    Indeed, and often you rebuild it by taking better care of yourself.
  - ianamartin 9y ago
    I feel you. My best friend did the same when I was in my mid 20s, and it really wrecked me. 14 years later, I _still_ sometimes have a really hard time with it. I still visit his parents once a year and play my violin for them--the same piece he requested in his suicide note that I play at his funeral. For a couple of years after he died, I was really angry and depressed--perfect mood for a classical musician, really. But I wasn't getting any better. After a while, I decided to start trying to understand what was in his head better. He was always a brilliant Mathematician and Software Developer and Philosopher. I was into tech at the hobbyist level. Purely as a curiosity. So I started reading all the books I inherited from him, and over time the projects he was always talking about and the goals and dreams he had . . . started to make sense to me. Eventually, I decided to chase some of his dreams for him, and that got me started down the path I've been on ever since. At first I worked on his dreams and took them as far as I could make sense of them. Then I started realizing I was forming my own dreams and goals wrt technology stuff. And I started chasing those. I have a good life now. Better and happier than I was as a musician. I was a far happier person 4 years after he died than I was before he died. He changed my life and opened up a world to me that I didn't know about while he was alive. And he did it again after he died. I'm sure that with the suicide rates being what they are in the U.S. that most people have been touched in some way by this particular pain. Though it's easy for me to forget that on a particular day every year. Sounds like you're dealing with it in a healthy way. Hang in there when it gets tough. It gets less and less tough over time, and eventually, you get to a point where the feelings hit you on your terms, when you're ready for them, and you plan out your response in advance, and you can be honestly positive about how you deal with it--a point where the happiness that this person was a part of your life outweighs the sadness of the loss: a genuine appreciation of a wonderful human being. Sorry for your loss.
- pixl97 10y ago
  On the significant other, if the person didn't die suddenly, but had a terminal disease, it may make some sense that happiness increased. Watching someone die slowly, and the associated hospital visits is a soul draining experience. There is relief that their suffering is over and you get to have a life again, even though the person you loved isn't with you for it.
- dhfhduk 10y ago
  I think the dynamics are different in each case, but my guess is in most cases, the widowing event is one that is predictable, especially through chronic illness. Chronic illness in a spouse or family member is a major stressor. Not only do you watch a loved one suffer, you often have major responsibilities as a result. So when the person passes, there's probably a mixed sense of tremendous sadness, but also a sense that your loved one is no longer suffering, and you can try to move on. Divorce is different, but similar in that in most cases, problems leading to divorce have been going on for some time. So by the time the divorce happens, it's seen as an undesirable outcome, but one that is better than staying married. The "missing situation" you seem to be implying or thinking about is one where a spouse/significant other is killed unexpectedly by accident or trauma, like a fatal car accident that is not their fault. My guess is those cases, you'd see a decline in well-being after the event, followed by a recovery to baseline. The case of women after unemployment was puzzling to me, though. It led me to question the validity of the inferences, or to wonder what's going on with women that's different from men. I wondered if childcare had something to do with it. Perhaps women tend to leave employment because of children, return and then feel satisfied in doing so, but then realize they miss staying at home with the child? Maybe the industries they are in are different from men, and are subject to different trajectories? I have no idea.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
ben_jones 10y ago
My understanding is that one's perceived social value plays a large role in their overall happiness and that men attach more of their social value to their employment then women.
skylark 10y ago
I'd really like to see standard deviation bars on that chart - my interpretation is that the sample size is extremely small.
frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
Looks like it may not be published yet: http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/PROSPERO/display_record.asp?ID=CRD42016051530 http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/PROSPERO/display_record.asp?ID=CRD... Here's a presentation the authors gave though: https://www.uea.ac.uk/documents/5212420/0/Cigdem+Gedikli+.pdf/a48d29cc-f65a-409b-b0a1-544ff2e63885 https://www.uea.ac.uk/documents/5212420/0/Cigdem+Gedikli+.pd... [pdf]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
clock_tower 10y ago
> What's up with the massive drop in happiness of fired women between years 3 and 4 post-firing? Noise from big data, were I to guess. There's no logic involved in this sort of thing, just a lot of self-reported correlations and just-so stories about the results. I can't say I'm happy that this is what "science" tends to mean these days...
pdelbarba 10y ago
I wonder if it's a correlation/causality type thing. Someone getting fired might be more likely to get fired again which messes with the data somewhat. I'd also wager that romantic rejection is something the average person experiences much more frequently than employment rejection.
user5994461 10y ago
> men do meaningfully worse than women post-firing, per the graph I'd easy to assume than women rely on the income from the men.

27182818284 10y ago

Yeah the article doesn't have a lot of details. Is there a journal paper somewhere? I'd be curious to read it. A cursory search didn't turn anything up for me.

btkramer9 10y ago

I've never been married but the other data surprised me too. Both men and women experience increased happiness after a divorce or their significant other died.

civilian 10y ago
It's the year of divorice/widowhood that is the low mark, but afterwards people recover. Doesn't that make sense? That are still in the negatives as far as life satisfaction goes. My close friend killed himself nearly 4 years ago. The first year was really bad, the second year was just a little better. And now, ya know, I'm mostly back to myself. Life satisfaction isn't a finite resource that you can only lose, you can rebuild it.
- jschwartzi 10y ago
  Indeed, and often you rebuild it by taking better care of yourself.
- ianamartin 9y ago
  I feel you. My best friend did the same when I was in my mid 20s, and it really wrecked me. 14 years later, I _still_ sometimes have a really hard time with it. I still visit his parents once a year and play my violin for them--the same piece he requested in his suicide note that I play at his funeral. For a couple of years after he died, I was really angry and depressed--perfect mood for a classical musician, really. But I wasn't getting any better. After a while, I decided to start trying to understand what was in his head better. He was always a brilliant Mathematician and Software Developer and Philosopher. I was into tech at the hobbyist level. Purely as a curiosity. So I started reading all the books I inherited from him, and over time the projects he was always talking about and the goals and dreams he had . . . started to make sense to me. Eventually, I decided to chase some of his dreams for him, and that got me started down the path I've been on ever since. At first I worked on his dreams and took them as far as I could make sense of them. Then I started realizing I was forming my own dreams and goals wrt technology stuff. And I started chasing those. I have a good life now. Better and happier than I was as a musician. I was a far happier person 4 years after he died than I was before he died. He changed my life and opened up a world to me that I didn't know about while he was alive. And he did it again after he died. I'm sure that with the suicide rates being what they are in the U.S. that most people have been touched in some way by this particular pain. Though it's easy for me to forget that on a particular day every year. Sounds like you're dealing with it in a healthy way. Hang in there when it gets tough. It gets less and less tough over time, and eventually, you get to a point where the feelings hit you on your terms, when you're ready for them, and you plan out your response in advance, and you can be honestly positive about how you deal with it--a point where the happiness that this person was a part of your life outweighs the sadness of the loss: a genuine appreciation of a wonderful human being. Sorry for your loss.
pixl97 10y ago
On the significant other, if the person didn't die suddenly, but had a terminal disease, it may make some sense that happiness increased. Watching someone die slowly, and the associated hospital visits is a soul draining experience. There is relief that their suffering is over and you get to have a life again, even though the person you loved isn't with you for it.
dhfhduk 10y ago
I think the dynamics are different in each case, but my guess is in most cases, the widowing event is one that is predictable, especially through chronic illness. Chronic illness in a spouse or family member is a major stressor. Not only do you watch a loved one suffer, you often have major responsibilities as a result. So when the person passes, there's probably a mixed sense of tremendous sadness, but also a sense that your loved one is no longer suffering, and you can try to move on. Divorce is different, but similar in that in most cases, problems leading to divorce have been going on for some time. So by the time the divorce happens, it's seen as an undesirable outcome, but one that is better than staying married. The "missing situation" you seem to be implying or thinking about is one where a spouse/significant other is killed unexpectedly by accident or trauma, like a fatal car accident that is not their fault. My guess is those cases, you'd see a decline in well-being after the event, followed by a recovery to baseline. The case of women after unemployment was puzzling to me, though. It led me to question the validity of the inferences, or to wonder what's going on with women that's different from men. I wondered if childcare had something to do with it. Perhaps women tend to leave employment because of children, return and then feel satisfied in doing so, but then realize they miss staying at home with the child? Maybe the industries they are in are different from men, and are subject to different trajectories? I have no idea.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

ben_jones 10y ago

My understanding is that one's perceived social value plays a large role in their overall happiness and that men attach more of their social value to their employment then women.

skylark 10y ago

I'd really like to see standard deviation bars on that chart - my interpretation is that the sample size is extremely small.

frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago

Looks like it may not be published yet: http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/PROSPERO/display_record.asp?ID=CRD42016051530 http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/PROSPERO/display_record.asp?ID=CRD... Here's a presentation the authors gave though: https://www.uea.ac.uk/documents/5212420/0/Cigdem+Gedikli+.pdf/a48d29cc-f65a-409b-b0a1-544ff2e63885 https://www.uea.ac.uk/documents/5212420/0/Cigdem+Gedikli+.pd... [pdf]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

clock_tower 10y ago

> What's up with the massive drop in happiness of fired women between years 3 and 4 post-firing? Noise from big data, were I to guess. There's no logic involved in this sort of thing, just a lot of self-reported correlations and just-so stories about the results. I can't say I'm happy that this is what "science" tends to mean these days...

pdelbarba 10y ago

I wonder if it's a correlation/causality type thing. Someone getting fired might be more likely to get fired again which messes with the data somewhat. I'd also wager that romantic rejection is something the average person experiences much more frequently than employment rejection.

user5994461 10y ago

> men do meaningfully worse than women post-firing, per the graph I'd easy to assume than women rely on the income from the men.