7 ms·

Pavel Durov Has Unfriended Everyone

74 points by agronaut 9y ago

bitexploder 9y ago
I wiped out (actual permanent deletion) my Facebook account late 2016. Email and long form communication for people that matter. Gathered anyone I regularly chatted with or wanted to IM with onto Signal. Don't miss anything about Facebook other than a group or two I was a member of. Decentralized forums still exist and work fine. We deserve better than Facebook.
- nitemice 9y ago
  I have been wanting to do this for literally years now, but I don't think I could convince the vast majority of my friends to move onto anything together, let alone Signal. Most of them are non-technical, and it just holds no appeal. Plus, because they would basically just be installing it just to talk to me, they would probably nearly never be online or check their messages, so I'd almost never get to talk to them again. I basically don't use Facebook (the website), but I am still stuck using their Messenger for communication with most of my friends. That said, Facebook's events system is still the best that I've seen. If it was stand-alone, I would probably delete the rest of FB, and just keep that part. Nothing else on Facebook adds any value to my experience. Nothing you need to be logged in for, at least.
  - nash_tr 9y ago
    You could unfollow everyone. i did this a few months back and haven't missed it at all. way less distraction.
    - keypress 9y ago
      You are basically saying your friends were a distraction. Which is a little rude (UK perspective).
      - icantdrive55 9y ago
        In the US, many FB'ers friend anyone. I had this girl I worshiped years ago. She finally seemed interested, on a chance encounter. She said, "I'll friend you?" Blah, blah, etc. I got home, and looked her up. She had 550 friends. I can't figure out if I don't like her now because she rebuffed me years ago, or she has 550 FB friends. And yes--I took into account she might be insecure now, and filled with self-doubt; which would explain why she needs to have a following. All I know is I don't feel the same way about her as I did before I saw her FB page though. Weird?
        tempestn 9y ago
        I think you're reading too much into it. I barely use facebook and have a couple hundred friends. I'll accept an invite from anyone I know and like, regardless of how well I know them. Do that for a decade, or however long FB's been around, and you build up quite a few.
        keypress 9y ago
        It's very tempting to friend anyone. But because of Facebook's tendency to then cross pollinate posts via comments etc. I'm more reluctant to do so (privacy of others). I post to Facebook almost as if I'd post in public. But it's different for everyone. I know there are settings and ways to make circles, but it seems a faff.
      - nash_tr 9y ago
        heh, you know - you're not wrong :) It may appear rude, but it's not meant to be - it's just a way of flipping the interaction from a push to a pull. i can always visit a friend's page to see what they've been up to.
  - bitexploder 9y ago
    I guess that is what it comes down to. I am now missing a lot of low quality interactions with friends and family. I do still SMS with folks. It was mostly about Facebook. I took the time to plan out how to stay in touch with each and every one of my contacts I cared about or thought would care about me. It is a good question -- what will you really be missing? How did the thinkers of generations gone by live without pervasive and instant contact with friends and family. Did they still foster deep and meaningful relationships? Can we still do that now without a tool like Facebook or Twitter.
  - mafribe 9y ago
    Have you considered using the "Facebook News Feed Eradicator"? It does what the name suggests it does, and let's you focus on events and private messages.
  - aldanor 9y ago
    IIRC you can deactivate FB but still use their IM
- dymk 9y ago
  It's so nice to see such rare and nuanced discussion on HN, declaring that one has deleted their Facebook account; a refreshing and entirely not beat to death reminder indeed.
  - bitexploder 9y ago
    Heh, alright. Well, if it is news some famous Russian guy unfollowed his network activity helps other HNers have a tiny bit more information about what others are doing. I will elaborate some though. I am in information security and have been reforming my overall footprint online. I have been making an effort to cut down on the analytics I generate for other companies and keep my data and activity on the Internet to myself. I have migrated away from Mac and Windows as primary operating systems due to analytics and ongoing downward trend for Apple (Sierra was not a good update from a privacy perspective). Perhaps I am simplifying too much, but this problem does not seem complex -- but we have collectively made it complicated. People need to claw back their privacy one app, and website at a time. I have also made efforts to begin educating my family. I have also connected my entire home Internet to a full time VPN end point that tunnels everything out. The VPN endpoint IP is changed every day at night (Trail of Bits -- Algo, cron and a bash script, and a good amount of battle with IPSec to make the gateway work). No more ISP super tracking cookies in my home. Everyone that is on the home network goes through is so it is easy for everyone to use (nothing changed on my home network from the end user perspective). Consistent usage of privoxy. Casual browsing is done using Chrome in a docker container that is removed when chrome closes. There are other things, but most of that has been over the last 6 months. It is a good start... But there are still a lot of obvious leaks. I have also been steering friends and family towards paid service with no advertising over anything where they are the "product".
- keypress 9y ago
  I miss Facebook, or rather the circle of friends on it. I'm ideologically opposed to the idea of one big centralised thing like Facebook - but as an actual tool it's pretty spiffy.
m52go 9y ago
Despite its imperfections, which in my cursory understanding are largely academic, Telegram is an amazing messenger. It's very quick, feature-rich, and developer-friendly. Perhaps best of all, it's a nonprofit. So I can expect, with a high degree of confidence, that the organization won't abruptly switch course one day to appease investors.
- Johnny_Brahms 9y ago
  The criticism is only about the crypto, which is weird and historically unsafe (and not on by default). Other than that it is a great app. Some of us just think the bar is e2e by default.
- dzink 9y ago
  A non-profit simply means that it cannot hold money from one year to the next. To achieve that, a "non-profit" could give millions as executive compensation or contract inefficiently to for-profit "partners" who collect the gains. Not saying Telegram is doing that, but the structure shouldn't be adding to a vote of confidence in any way.
- Aloha 9y ago
  Telegram has solved the communications problem for me mostly. Before telegram, I had, all of the legacy messenger services (AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Skype, etc), plus Slack, IRC and whatever I used at work - now I have Telegram, and no longer sign into those legacy services anymore. What makes telegram a winner for me is that the desktop is a first class citizen, I'm in front of a computer like 18 hours a day - I don't want to have to stop what I'm going and respond on my phone. Yes, perhaps Signal is more secure, and I may try it someday.. but for now.. Telegram has largely solved my 'communications' problem.
  - mullsork 9y ago
    Are you using Telegram instead of Slack at work?
    - la_oveja 9y ago
steevenwee 9y ago
Actually using Durov's messenger app. Have created a couple of personal bots myself, which took less than an hour each. The only downside will probably be the time when Durov is out of money, and they will start monetizing the platform.
electic 9y ago
This is a puff piece designed to puff up Telegram. If you look at, say, Instagram it is growing rapidly. Specifically to Facebook, the issue is 3 pronged: - Disassociated Graph. The truth is the friends you had in high school and your family are all great but it is highly likely you don't share a lot of things in common with them. For example, your love for kayaking and the outdoors might resonate with no one on your graph. Instagram, and other networks like it, you build graphs based on interest. If your Instagram account is about the outdoors, it is highly likely everyone else will be outdoors people as well. That's more rewarding. - Bad Content. Graph aside, the content is terrible. The feed is full with click-bait articles, and fake news. You actually feed bad after spending any time on Facebook because you know it is was a waste. - Ads. A good chunk of your feed now is full of ads. Terrible ads. Instagram, for example, is a relatively clean interface. I would say Facebook is clearly on the decline based on the above but to say all networks are on the decline is false. Instagram has proven otherwise and there will be other networks, in the same Instagram vein, that will grow quickly as well. Lastly, all of these networks and messengers have one glaring flaw. They isolate you. President Obama touched upon this a week ago. They do little to connect you with your surroundings and I would hardly call any of them "social networks." They don't connect you to your neighborhood, your city, and the places you frequent the most. It is pretty shocking, but most Americans now only, on average, have about 2.5 friends they see regularly in real-life and most people don't even know who their neighbors are. It's sad.
- nitemice 9y ago
  As far as I understand it, the first two of these problems, you could theoretically fix (to some extent) yourself. If you share nothing in common with your high school friends, your family etc., just don't be 'friends' with them. Only friend/like pages related to your interest. In theory, that would fix problem 2 as well, to some extent, because the majority of the junk that fills your feed comes from your twice-removed aunt who 'likes' every video she sees and reposting every click-bait article she can find. Unfortunately, if that all worked as planned, that would probably cause your feed to be flood with way more ads, to make up for the lack of content. But at least they might be more targeted?
  - 9y ago
zmix 9y ago
I have no friends.
- nitemice 9y ago
  I'll be your friend. I see we have the same phone. We have things in common already!
  - doubleplusgood 9y ago
    Be my friend, too?
    - ziggysak 9y ago
      Can we all be friends together?
      - doubleplusgood 9y ago
        I don't see why not!
rebuilder 9y ago
I'd love to see an FB replacement with just groups and events. All the rest is just noise to me, but I guess it's hard to get a viable userbase without the fluffier features of FB. And of course there's the whole problem of everyone already using FB. Ideally, it'd be federated, perhaps an extension of GNU Social, but wishes ain't horses...
Aoyagi 9y ago
I'd think Durov was the kind of person who uses social network only for PR and is not otherwise interested in it...
yakshaving_jgt 9y ago
Please don't let Dave Shing see this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq5h9Uacq0w&feature=youtu.be&t=48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq5h9Uacq0w&feature=youtu.be...
pmontra 9y ago
I've been using Facebook for eleven years and I almost stopped logging in. I used it almost only to say happy birthday to friends in 2016. This year only to post some work related news and events. The point is that ten years are a long time and I lost interest. It's all the same routine again and again. Luckily I meet in person with most of the friends I care about and there are many different ways to reach people, messengers and other sites.
atemerev 9y ago
I have unfollowed (not unfriended) everyone in Facebook about a year ago (before it became mainstream). What a happy year it was. 12/10 would do it again.
viach 9y ago
And Messenger Lite is just out. Coincidence?
theprop 9y ago
This is interesting because I thought that Durov after selling VK invested the proceeds into FB?! I don't know that the decline of usage of Facebook means Facebook is necessarily in decline (though I agree with the anecdotal notes about using FB less). It could be that usage has moderated a bit from the migration from desktop to mostly mobile. It may mean that social network activity is split say between FB and Snapchat (and messaging clients). If it does indicate FB is in decline, it doesn't necessarily mean social networks are unneeded or in decline, it may just mean we need new social networks :-).
la_oveja 9y ago
I hope Telegram makes a Mozilla-style move in the future. We needed open-source on the web, and we will need open-source on the IM.
- andrewshadura 9y ago
  Have you heard of matrix.org?
konart 9y ago
>Vkontakte, which quickly beat the original in Russia because it became the medium for sharing pirated movies and music While true - one of the big reasons VK is more popular is simple and light UI, something that Fb lacks for some reason. Many people here won't switch or even register simply because everything is hidden somewhere, and instead of chronological feed of articles from your friends and groups you have tons of "the most popular posts". Nobody want's that. Nobody cares about how much likes the post have. Just give me the content I'm here for, not the content you think is more important or trendy.
squozzer 9y ago
Here's my 4x10^1000 Zimbabwe Dollars - FB = Show N Tell. Messenger = Passing Notes. Both have their place.

74 points by agronaut 9y ago

I wiped out (actual permanent deletion) my Facebook account late 2016. Email and long form communication for people that matter. Gathered anyone I regularly chatted with or wanted to IM with onto Signal. Don't miss anything about Facebook other than a group or two I was a member of. Decentralized forums still exist and work fine. We deserve better than Facebook.

nitemice 9y ago
I have been wanting to do this for literally years now, but I don't think I could convince the vast majority of my friends to move onto anything together, let alone Signal. Most of them are non-technical, and it just holds no appeal. Plus, because they would basically just be installing it just to talk to me, they would probably nearly never be online or check their messages, so I'd almost never get to talk to them again. I basically don't use Facebook (the website), but I am still stuck using their Messenger for communication with most of my friends. That said, Facebook's events system is still the best that I've seen. If it was stand-alone, I would probably delete the rest of FB, and just keep that part. Nothing else on Facebook adds any value to my experience. Nothing you need to be logged in for, at least.
- nash_tr 9y ago
  You could unfollow everyone. i did this a few months back and haven't missed it at all. way less distraction.
  - keypress 9y ago
    You are basically saying your friends were a distraction. Which is a little rude (UK perspective).
    - icantdrive55 9y ago
      In the US, many FB'ers friend anyone. I had this girl I worshiped years ago. She finally seemed interested, on a chance encounter. She said, "I'll friend you?" Blah, blah, etc. I got home, and looked her up. She had 550 friends. I can't figure out if I don't like her now because she rebuffed me years ago, or she has 550 FB friends. And yes--I took into account she might be insecure now, and filled with self-doubt; which would explain why she needs to have a following. All I know is I don't feel the same way about her as I did before I saw her FB page though. Weird?
      - tempestn 9y ago
        I think you're reading too much into it. I barely use facebook and have a couple hundred friends. I'll accept an invite from anyone I know and like, regardless of how well I know them. Do that for a decade, or however long FB's been around, and you build up quite a few.
        keypress 9y ago
        It's very tempting to friend anyone. But because of Facebook's tendency to then cross pollinate posts via comments etc. I'm more reluctant to do so (privacy of others). I post to Facebook almost as if I'd post in public. But it's different for everyone. I know there are settings and ways to make circles, but it seems a faff.
    - nash_tr 9y ago
      heh, you know - you're not wrong :) It may appear rude, but it's not meant to be - it's just a way of flipping the interaction from a push to a pull. i can always visit a friend's page to see what they've been up to.
- bitexploder 9y ago
  I guess that is what it comes down to. I am now missing a lot of low quality interactions with friends and family. I do still SMS with folks. It was mostly about Facebook. I took the time to plan out how to stay in touch with each and every one of my contacts I cared about or thought would care about me. It is a good question -- what will you really be missing? How did the thinkers of generations gone by live without pervasive and instant contact with friends and family. Did they still foster deep and meaningful relationships? Can we still do that now without a tool like Facebook or Twitter.
- mafribe 9y ago
  Have you considered using the "Facebook News Feed Eradicator"? It does what the name suggests it does, and let's you focus on events and private messages.
- aldanor 9y ago
  IIRC you can deactivate FB but still use their IM
dymk 9y ago
It's so nice to see such rare and nuanced discussion on HN, declaring that one has deleted their Facebook account; a refreshing and entirely not beat to death reminder indeed.
- bitexploder 9y ago
  Heh, alright. Well, if it is news some famous Russian guy unfollowed his network activity helps other HNers have a tiny bit more information about what others are doing. I will elaborate some though. I am in information security and have been reforming my overall footprint online. I have been making an effort to cut down on the analytics I generate for other companies and keep my data and activity on the Internet to myself. I have migrated away from Mac and Windows as primary operating systems due to analytics and ongoing downward trend for Apple (Sierra was not a good update from a privacy perspective). Perhaps I am simplifying too much, but this problem does not seem complex -- but we have collectively made it complicated. People need to claw back their privacy one app, and website at a time. I have also made efforts to begin educating my family. I have also connected my entire home Internet to a full time VPN end point that tunnels everything out. The VPN endpoint IP is changed every day at night (Trail of Bits -- Algo, cron and a bash script, and a good amount of battle with IPSec to make the gateway work). No more ISP super tracking cookies in my home. Everyone that is on the home network goes through is so it is easy for everyone to use (nothing changed on my home network from the end user perspective). Consistent usage of privoxy. Casual browsing is done using Chrome in a docker container that is removed when chrome closes. There are other things, but most of that has been over the last 6 months. It is a good start... But there are still a lot of obvious leaks. I have also been steering friends and family towards paid service with no advertising over anything where they are the "product".
keypress 9y ago
I miss Facebook, or rather the circle of friends on it. I'm ideologically opposed to the idea of one big centralised thing like Facebook - but as an actual tool it's pretty spiffy.

m52go 9y ago

Despite its imperfections, which in my cursory understanding are largely academic, Telegram is an amazing messenger. It's very quick, feature-rich, and developer-friendly. Perhaps best of all, it's a nonprofit. So I can expect, with a high degree of confidence, that the organization won't abruptly switch course one day to appease investors.

Johnny_Brahms 9y ago
The criticism is only about the crypto, which is weird and historically unsafe (and not on by default). Other than that it is a great app. Some of us just think the bar is e2e by default.
dzink 9y ago
A non-profit simply means that it cannot hold money from one year to the next. To achieve that, a "non-profit" could give millions as executive compensation or contract inefficiently to for-profit "partners" who collect the gains. Not saying Telegram is doing that, but the structure shouldn't be adding to a vote of confidence in any way.
Aloha 9y ago
Telegram has solved the communications problem for me mostly. Before telegram, I had, all of the legacy messenger services (AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Skype, etc), plus Slack, IRC and whatever I used at work - now I have Telegram, and no longer sign into those legacy services anymore. What makes telegram a winner for me is that the desktop is a first class citizen, I'm in front of a computer like 18 hours a day - I don't want to have to stop what I'm going and respond on my phone. Yes, perhaps Signal is more secure, and I may try it someday.. but for now.. Telegram has largely solved my 'communications' problem.
- mullsork 9y ago
  Are you using Telegram instead of Slack at work?
  - la_oveja 9y ago

steevenwee 9y ago

Actually using Durov's messenger app. Have created a couple of personal bots myself, which took less than an hour each. The only downside will probably be the time when Durov is out of money, and they will start monetizing the platform.

electic 9y ago

This is a puff piece designed to puff up Telegram. If you look at, say, Instagram it is growing rapidly. Specifically to Facebook, the issue is 3 pronged: - Disassociated Graph. The truth is the friends you had in high school and your family are all great but it is highly likely you don't share a lot of things in common with them. For example, your love for kayaking and the outdoors might resonate with no one on your graph. Instagram, and other networks like it, you build graphs based on interest. If your Instagram account is about the outdoors, it is highly likely everyone else will be outdoors people as well. That's more rewarding. - Bad Content. Graph aside, the content is terrible. The feed is full with click-bait articles, and fake news. You actually feed bad after spending any time on Facebook because you know it is was a waste. - Ads. A good chunk of your feed now is full of ads. Terrible ads. Instagram, for example, is a relatively clean interface. I would say Facebook is clearly on the decline based on the above but to say all networks are on the decline is false. Instagram has proven otherwise and there will be other networks, in the same Instagram vein, that will grow quickly as well. Lastly, all of these networks and messengers have one glaring flaw. They isolate you. President Obama touched upon this a week ago. They do little to connect you with your surroundings and I would hardly call any of them "social networks." They don't connect you to your neighborhood, your city, and the places you frequent the most. It is pretty shocking, but most Americans now only, on average, have about 2.5 friends they see regularly in real-life and most people don't even know who their neighbors are. It's sad.

nitemice 9y ago
As far as I understand it, the first two of these problems, you could theoretically fix (to some extent) yourself. If you share nothing in common with your high school friends, your family etc., just don't be 'friends' with them. Only friend/like pages related to your interest. In theory, that would fix problem 2 as well, to some extent, because the majority of the junk that fills your feed comes from your twice-removed aunt who 'likes' every video she sees and reposting every click-bait article she can find. Unfortunately, if that all worked as planned, that would probably cause your feed to be flood with way more ads, to make up for the lack of content. But at least they might be more targeted?
- 9y ago

zmix 9y ago

I have no friends.

nitemice 9y ago
I'll be your friend. I see we have the same phone. We have things in common already!
- doubleplusgood 9y ago
  Be my friend, too?
  - ziggysak 9y ago
    Can we all be friends together?
    - doubleplusgood 9y ago
      I don't see why not!

rebuilder 9y ago

I'd love to see an FB replacement with just groups and events. All the rest is just noise to me, but I guess it's hard to get a viable userbase without the fluffier features of FB. And of course there's the whole problem of everyone already using FB. Ideally, it'd be federated, perhaps an extension of GNU Social, but wishes ain't horses...

Aoyagi 9y ago

I'd think Durov was the kind of person who uses social network only for PR and is not otherwise interested in it...

yakshaving_jgt 9y ago

Please don't let Dave Shing see this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq5h9Uacq0w&feature=youtu.be&t=48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq5h9Uacq0w&feature=youtu.be...

pmontra 9y ago

I've been using Facebook for eleven years and I almost stopped logging in. I used it almost only to say happy birthday to friends in 2016. This year only to post some work related news and events. The point is that ten years are a long time and I lost interest. It's all the same routine again and again. Luckily I meet in person with most of the friends I care about and there are many different ways to reach people, messengers and other sites.

atemerev 9y ago

I have unfollowed (not unfriended) everyone in Facebook about a year ago (before it became mainstream). What a happy year it was. 12/10 would do it again.

viach 9y ago

And Messenger Lite is just out. Coincidence?

theprop 9y ago

This is interesting because I thought that Durov after selling VK invested the proceeds into FB?! I don't know that the decline of usage of Facebook means Facebook is necessarily in decline (though I agree with the anecdotal notes about using FB less). It could be that usage has moderated a bit from the migration from desktop to mostly mobile. It may mean that social network activity is split say between FB and Snapchat (and messaging clients). If it does indicate FB is in decline, it doesn't necessarily mean social networks are unneeded or in decline, it may just mean we need new social networks :-).

la_oveja 9y ago

I hope Telegram makes a Mozilla-style move in the future. We needed open-source on the web, and we will need open-source on the IM.

andrewshadura 9y ago
Have you heard of matrix.org?

konart 9y ago

>Vkontakte, which quickly beat the original in Russia because it became the medium for sharing pirated movies and music While true - one of the big reasons VK is more popular is simple and light UI, something that Fb lacks for some reason. Many people here won't switch or even register simply because everything is hidden somewhere, and instead of chronological feed of articles from your friends and groups you have tons of "the most popular posts". Nobody want's that. Nobody cares about how much likes the post have. Just give me the content I'm here for, not the content you think is more important or trendy.

squozzer 9y ago

Here's my 4x10^1000 Zimbabwe Dollars - FB = Show N Tell. Messenger = Passing Notes. Both have their place.