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This post may only be tangentially related to TFA but these were my thoughts that came to my mind when reading this article and I'd like to get some alternative

This post may only be tangentially related to TFA but these were my thoughts that came to my mind when reading this article and I'd like to get some alternative perspective as someone who "doesn't get it." Dollar Shave Club, apparently, delivers Dorco razor blades once a month. The exact same ones you can buy straight from Dorco for a fraction of the price, or if you prefer, Amazon. Razor blades are so small that several months worth can easily fit in even a dorm room. The CEO apparently believes that he's adding value from the subscription model. >[Dollar Shave CEO Michael] Dubin said his service offers greater "convenience." "Are there similar razors out there? Sure. But our goal is to create value." I pointed out that I can get the Dorco razors delivered conveniently to my front door, too. "Not once a month," he said... Bottom line, if people want to buy in bulk, there's a bazillion other places on the web to do that. Dollar Shave Club offers value beyond just the price of blades & convenience.(1) What does HN think about this? Would you pay a markup for the "convenience" of a subscription? Is this a real thing people find value in? (Personally I find 'create value' to be a suspect phrase in this context. I also, personally, find subscriptions to be inconvenient 99% of the time) (1) http://lifehacker.com/5903771/forget-dollar-shave-clubbuy-the-same-high-quality-razors-for-a-third-of-the-price http://lifehacker.com/5903771/forget-dollar-shave-clubbuy-th...

dsacco 9y ago
Eh, I don't think Dollar Shave Club fits in with the article's examples. The value created is that many people want to spend more money and less of their time with consistent results. The company doesn't try to ratchet up margin with unnecessary tech, it just satisfies a legitimate customer demand. That might be a customer demand you don't identify with, or which you believe shouldn't exist; it's still a legitimate demand. The article is mainly talking about companies that augment existing products with shallow improvements for the sake of large margin increases. Dollar Shave Club is novel in that it adds a service to abstract away the thinking portion of buying a razor. It makes no attempt to increase profits with shitty tech.
- throwawaycopy 9y ago
  Just like the "legitimate demand" for heroin or cigarettes! While we're at it can we get rid of the FDA so we can go back to a world filled with the "legitimate demand" for laudnum sold as a miracle cure for consumption, hysterics and gout? Neoliberalism, by mixing ethical relativism with social Darwinism, allows for some rent seeking asshat to sleep well at night because they authorised a marketing campaign featuring a black woman. Good job, Team Progress! All we need are just a few more empty words and a few more empty products... We're almost there!
  - dsacco 9y ago
    Yeah, no. Heroin and tobacco are products, and I am in agreement that products with crappy value propositions and high margins are unethical. But I don't know why you chose those extremes. They paint a false dichotomy of the danger inherent to liberty of consumption. If we have to use extreme analogies, I would rather use prostitution, because it is a service. Just like Dollar Shave Club, I think there is legitimate customer demand and it shouldn't be illegal. I also am not going to judge someone for partaking of it even though there exist easier or cheaper options for getting the product - sex. So that just brings us full circle to my original point, which appears to still stand.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    Yes, please, FDA isn't doing anyone any favors right now. Throw it out and build something more reasonable like they have in basically every other nation on earth. I have gout, which is well controlled by not eating too much meat at a sitting and occasional "doses" of tart cherry juice. FDA would prefer I spend hundreds of dollars a year on drugs. I'm not sure what to recommend for your hysterics, however.
    - grzm 9y ago
      > FDA would prefer I spend hundreds of dollars a year on drugs. Would you elaborate on this? It leads me to think that the FDA is either recommending against you handling your gout as you see fit through diet, or strongly encouraging you to use the medication you'd rather not spend money on. The FDA may approve drugs for specific treatments, but that doesn't mean you have to use them, does it?
rm_-rf_slash 9y ago
I like DSC. I know I could get razors cheaper in bulk but I prefer the convenience and it's still much cheaper than buying $15+ packs at the store. Nitpick: DSC is headquartered in Los Angeles, not Silicon Valley.
justanotherbot 9y ago
While I agree DSC seems insane, you are looking at it from the wrong end: most customers were used to paying crazy prices at the grocery store. DSC is cheap by comparison, even if you can get the same blades for less elsewhere. Dorco could have run the same business, but DSC figured out how to market it.
- iamatworknow 9y ago
  You can point directly to marketing for Dollar Shave Club's success, and nothing more. They emerged at around the same time as things like Amazon's subscription service, which offers the same or even greater value (the selection is much greater), with a company that people are already familiar with. But DSC paid for podcast and TV advertisement, so instead of people going from grocery store to finding their own cheaper alternative, they went straight to DSC. From a business standpoint it's a great strategy executed at the right time, even if it does feel icky. Personally I use a stainless steel safety razor for $30 that will last forever, and blades that I got from Amazon at $12 for 100, each lasting about two weeks of every other day shaves as I have fine facial hair. DSC can't beat $12/year.
  - dforrestwilson 9y ago
    Bald guy here. Currently using DSC. Can you link that safety razor you bought? Thanks.
    - smacktoward 9y ago
      Can't speak for the parent, but here is the one I use: https://www.amazon.com/Merkur-HD-34C-Chrome-Plated/dp/B001LYAQ9E https://www.amazon.com/Merkur-HD-34C-Chrome-Plated/dp/B001LY... You'll want to try a few different brands of blade with it, as there's no one "silver bullet" blade that works best for everybody. Lots of vendors sell sample packs on Amazon containing a few blades each from a bunch of different brands. Here's an example: https://www.amazon.com/Double-Edge-Razor-Blade-Sample/dp/B01N6EEZ60/ref=pd_sim_194_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01N6EEZ60&pd_rd_r=KVSXRZZHTGNKSQ8Y3TA5&pd_rd_w=Z0Zma&pd_rd_wg=VRLe4&psc=1&refRID=KVSXRZZHTGNKSQ8Y3TA5 https://www.amazon.com/Double-Edge-Razor-Blade-Sample/dp/B01... If you want to really nerd out on this subject, the place to be is the Badger & Blade forums: https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/ https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/
AcerbicZero 9y ago
I started using DSC early on because their marketing video was hilarious, and I was always forgetting to buy razors when I needed them. Now they've expanded out into a whole range of bathroom products, most of which are about the same price as they would be in a store, which makes it an easy choice. When I put my account on hold, they don't spam me, begging me to come back. When I switched to every other month on razors, there was no dramatic emails or price changes. When I switched versions of the razor, they just shipped me a new handle. They've been doing this razor thing for ~7 years, and in that they haven't given me a single reason to complain. Its nice to have a transaction with a "startup" that does exactly what it says it's going to do.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Their other products are 3 to 4 times more expensive than perfectly reasonable options available at any megastore.
drewrv 9y ago
I don't use DSC but the value they provide is that you always have a razor. A lot of people have to shave for work and forgetting to buy razors at the store sucks. It means you have to shave with an old, dull razor. They charge you to avoid that situation.
douche 9y ago
I bought a medium sized package of Schick Injector razor blades about five years ago. At this rate, that might be a lifetime supply - they don't really get dull, and you can use them almost forever. Granted, I like my beard and don't shave daily, but even when I was keeping up the same routine and using Gilette-style cartridge razor blades, I was burning through them much faster.
- jeff_petersen 9y ago
  I'm a very happy injector user, nice close shave, minimal plastic waste. My only complaint is that the blades are expensive compared to double-edges (still cheap compared to cartridge razors)
paulsutter 9y ago
Dollar Shave Club is a marketing engine, Dorco is not. Few people order from Dorco because few people know they exist.
zippergz 9y ago
My life is much better when I optimize for convenience instead of saving money when the money is in the "handful of dollars" range. And yes, never again having to think about having to buy a routine item is convenient. It seems patently obvious that a subscription is more convenient than having to remember to buy something on a regular basis; I can't believe there's even debate about that. You can certainly debate whether the additional cost is worth the convenience, but I don't see how you can claim that there is no difference in convenience.
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  but your talking about something that doesn't spoil. why not just buy a ton once and be good for several years?
  - XorNot 9y ago
    The DSC is basically paying for a reminder to change your razor, not shave with it till it's awful. The same could be accomplished by a calendar notification of course.
- crwalker 9y ago
  Dollar Shave Club seems like an obscenely over-engineered solution when safety razor blades cost $0.12 each, and a pack of 100 blades easily lasts for 1-2 years and fits anywhere. Shaving is not a new problem.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    Or if you don't shave every day, and have a wimpy beard to begin with, that box of 100 might last (lemmee see...carry the one...) about 5 years. I think that's when I bought that box for $30 off Amazon. In other words, I, too, do not think about buying razor blades. At least more than every five years or so. And when I reach into that long cardboard tube only to find it empty of fresh blades, Amazon will have another five year supply at my door in two days. Six bucks a year: I'll bet it costs DSC more than that just in postage.
nullnilvoid 9y ago
Groundbreaking innovations do not happen every day. Small, slow incremental change (repackaging old stuff) moves us forward as well.
the_cat_kittles 9y ago
so what % of the margins on "subscription box" services comes from people forgetting / being too lazy to cancel? all of it? perishables and other time sensitive stuff notwithstanding, there is no reason getting something shipped monthly is going to be a better deal than buying in bulk. these people are obviously just trying to make a buck. they are full of shit if they say they are trying to create value, but they aren't really hurting anyone i guess. its mostly on the consumers for buying it.
- ExactoKnight 9y ago
  Amazon Subscribe and Save gives you 15% off on your order if you schedule 6 or more items. Economies of scale to drive prices down by 15% over what you would normally pay do exist. E.g. Amazon can save money individual per-unit shipping costs by sending the entire shipment over in one go every month. The promise (and likelihood) of continual recurring revenue means the net margin made per transaction can be lower yet still sustainable for Amazon, while benefitting the consumer.
JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
To refute his point, You can subscribe to receive razors every 1-6 months on Amazon. The only value I see him creating is value for his company haha.
Domenic_S 9y ago
A service like DSC that I thought was brilliant is that one that does air conditioning filters. I forgot its name, but I always forget to change my filter, and you're only supposed to do it every 6 months. Then because it's been so long, I invariably forget what size I need, buy the wrong one, have to go back... Ship me a filter every 6 months? Awesome! THAT'S a company I see as "adding value". No affiliation, not even a subscriber -- just had a "duh" moment when I saw their ad.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- coleifer 9y ago
  I made a recurring google calendar alert to solve this problem...
- emag 9y ago
  I just let my thermostat alert me, based on run time. It worked with my old programmable, it works with my Nest (yeah, I know). And since I buy 3-packs of the filters, when I get down to the last one, I just add "16x20x1 filters" to my shopping list. When I'm at Wallyworld or Home Despot/Blowes, I'm there for a reason, open my shopping list, and see the filters listed...
- jedberg 9y ago
  I signed up for Amazon's repeat delivery, which not only reminds me to change it (oh look a filter showed up time to change!) but it saved me money too. It's way cheaper than that subscription program (I looked at that too).
dorian-graph 9y ago
Why convenience? So people can go 'do what they love'? Or in reality, so people can spend more time on vapid social apps and feel like they're on top of trends?

dsacco 9y ago

Eh, I don't think Dollar Shave Club fits in with the article's examples. The value created is that many people want to spend more money and less of their time with consistent results. The company doesn't try to ratchet up margin with unnecessary tech, it just satisfies a legitimate customer demand. That might be a customer demand you don't identify with, or which you believe shouldn't exist; it's still a legitimate demand. The article is mainly talking about companies that augment existing products with shallow improvements for the sake of large margin increases. Dollar Shave Club is novel in that it adds a service to abstract away the thinking portion of buying a razor. It makes no attempt to increase profits with shitty tech.

throwawaycopy 9y ago
Just like the "legitimate demand" for heroin or cigarettes! While we're at it can we get rid of the FDA so we can go back to a world filled with the "legitimate demand" for laudnum sold as a miracle cure for consumption, hysterics and gout? Neoliberalism, by mixing ethical relativism with social Darwinism, allows for some rent seeking asshat to sleep well at night because they authorised a marketing campaign featuring a black woman. Good job, Team Progress! All we need are just a few more empty words and a few more empty products... We're almost there!
- dsacco 9y ago
  Yeah, no. Heroin and tobacco are products, and I am in agreement that products with crappy value propositions and high margins are unethical. But I don't know why you chose those extremes. They paint a false dichotomy of the danger inherent to liberty of consumption. If we have to use extreme analogies, I would rather use prostitution, because it is a service. Just like Dollar Shave Club, I think there is legitimate customer demand and it shouldn't be illegal. I also am not going to judge someone for partaking of it even though there exist easier or cheaper options for getting the product - sex. So that just brings us full circle to my original point, which appears to still stand.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  Yes, please, FDA isn't doing anyone any favors right now. Throw it out and build something more reasonable like they have in basically every other nation on earth. I have gout, which is well controlled by not eating too much meat at a sitting and occasional "doses" of tart cherry juice. FDA would prefer I spend hundreds of dollars a year on drugs. I'm not sure what to recommend for your hysterics, however.
  - grzm 9y ago
    > FDA would prefer I spend hundreds of dollars a year on drugs. Would you elaborate on this? It leads me to think that the FDA is either recommending against you handling your gout as you see fit through diet, or strongly encouraging you to use the medication you'd rather not spend money on. The FDA may approve drugs for specific treatments, but that doesn't mean you have to use them, does it?

rm_-rf_slash 9y ago

I like DSC. I know I could get razors cheaper in bulk but I prefer the convenience and it's still much cheaper than buying $15+ packs at the store. Nitpick: DSC is headquartered in Los Angeles, not Silicon Valley.

justanotherbot 9y ago

While I agree DSC seems insane, you are looking at it from the wrong end: most customers were used to paying crazy prices at the grocery store. DSC is cheap by comparison, even if you can get the same blades for less elsewhere. Dorco could have run the same business, but DSC figured out how to market it.

iamatworknow 9y ago
You can point directly to marketing for Dollar Shave Club's success, and nothing more. They emerged at around the same time as things like Amazon's subscription service, which offers the same or even greater value (the selection is much greater), with a company that people are already familiar with. But DSC paid for podcast and TV advertisement, so instead of people going from grocery store to finding their own cheaper alternative, they went straight to DSC. From a business standpoint it's a great strategy executed at the right time, even if it does feel icky. Personally I use a stainless steel safety razor for $30 that will last forever, and blades that I got from Amazon at $12 for 100, each lasting about two weeks of every other day shaves as I have fine facial hair. DSC can't beat $12/year.
- dforrestwilson 9y ago
  Bald guy here. Currently using DSC. Can you link that safety razor you bought? Thanks.
  - smacktoward 9y ago
    Can't speak for the parent, but here is the one I use: https://www.amazon.com/Merkur-HD-34C-Chrome-Plated/dp/B001LYAQ9E https://www.amazon.com/Merkur-HD-34C-Chrome-Plated/dp/B001LY... You'll want to try a few different brands of blade with it, as there's no one "silver bullet" blade that works best for everybody. Lots of vendors sell sample packs on Amazon containing a few blades each from a bunch of different brands. Here's an example: https://www.amazon.com/Double-Edge-Razor-Blade-Sample/dp/B01N6EEZ60/ref=pd_sim_194_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01N6EEZ60&pd_rd_r=KVSXRZZHTGNKSQ8Y3TA5&pd_rd_w=Z0Zma&pd_rd_wg=VRLe4&psc=1&refRID=KVSXRZZHTGNKSQ8Y3TA5 https://www.amazon.com/Double-Edge-Razor-Blade-Sample/dp/B01... If you want to really nerd out on this subject, the place to be is the Badger & Blade forums: https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/ https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/

AcerbicZero 9y ago

I started using DSC early on because their marketing video was hilarious, and I was always forgetting to buy razors when I needed them. Now they've expanded out into a whole range of bathroom products, most of which are about the same price as they would be in a store, which makes it an easy choice. When I put my account on hold, they don't spam me, begging me to come back. When I switched to every other month on razors, there was no dramatic emails or price changes. When I switched versions of the razor, they just shipped me a new handle. They've been doing this razor thing for ~7 years, and in that they haven't given me a single reason to complain. Its nice to have a transaction with a "startup" that does exactly what it says it's going to do.

maxerickson 9y ago
Their other products are 3 to 4 times more expensive than perfectly reasonable options available at any megastore.

drewrv 9y ago

I don't use DSC but the value they provide is that you always have a razor. A lot of people have to shave for work and forgetting to buy razors at the store sucks. It means you have to shave with an old, dull razor. They charge you to avoid that situation.

douche 9y ago

I bought a medium sized package of Schick Injector razor blades about five years ago. At this rate, that might be a lifetime supply - they don't really get dull, and you can use them almost forever. Granted, I like my beard and don't shave daily, but even when I was keeping up the same routine and using Gilette-style cartridge razor blades, I was burning through them much faster.

jeff_petersen 9y ago
I'm a very happy injector user, nice close shave, minimal plastic waste. My only complaint is that the blades are expensive compared to double-edges (still cheap compared to cartridge razors)

paulsutter 9y ago

Dollar Shave Club is a marketing engine, Dorco is not. Few people order from Dorco because few people know they exist.

zippergz 9y ago

My life is much better when I optimize for convenience instead of saving money when the money is in the "handful of dollars" range. And yes, never again having to think about having to buy a routine item is convenient. It seems patently obvious that a subscription is more convenient than having to remember to buy something on a regular basis; I can't believe there's even debate about that. You can certainly debate whether the additional cost is worth the convenience, but I don't see how you can claim that there is no difference in convenience.

the_cat_kittles 9y ago
but your talking about something that doesn't spoil. why not just buy a ton once and be good for several years?
- XorNot 9y ago
  The DSC is basically paying for a reminder to change your razor, not shave with it till it's awful. The same could be accomplished by a calendar notification of course.
crwalker 9y ago
Dollar Shave Club seems like an obscenely over-engineered solution when safety razor blades cost $0.12 each, and a pack of 100 blades easily lasts for 1-2 years and fits anywhere. Shaving is not a new problem.
- mikestew 9y ago
  Or if you don't shave every day, and have a wimpy beard to begin with, that box of 100 might last (lemmee see...carry the one...) about 5 years. I think that's when I bought that box for $30 off Amazon. In other words, I, too, do not think about buying razor blades. At least more than every five years or so. And when I reach into that long cardboard tube only to find it empty of fresh blades, Amazon will have another five year supply at my door in two days. Six bucks a year: I'll bet it costs DSC more than that just in postage.

nullnilvoid 9y ago

Groundbreaking innovations do not happen every day. Small, slow incremental change (repackaging old stuff) moves us forward as well.

the_cat_kittles 9y ago

so what % of the margins on "subscription box" services comes from people forgetting / being too lazy to cancel? all of it? perishables and other time sensitive stuff notwithstanding, there is no reason getting something shipped monthly is going to be a better deal than buying in bulk. these people are obviously just trying to make a buck. they are full of shit if they say they are trying to create value, but they aren't really hurting anyone i guess. its mostly on the consumers for buying it.

ExactoKnight 9y ago
Amazon Subscribe and Save gives you 15% off on your order if you schedule 6 or more items. Economies of scale to drive prices down by 15% over what you would normally pay do exist. E.g. Amazon can save money individual per-unit shipping costs by sending the entire shipment over in one go every month. The promise (and likelihood) of continual recurring revenue means the net margin made per transaction can be lower yet still sustainable for Amazon, while benefitting the consumer.

JohnJamesRambo 9y ago

To refute his point, You can subscribe to receive razors every 1-6 months on Amazon. The only value I see him creating is value for his company haha.

Domenic_S 9y ago

A service like DSC that I thought was brilliant is that one that does air conditioning filters. I forgot its name, but I always forget to change my filter, and you're only supposed to do it every 6 months. Then because it's been so long, I invariably forget what size I need, buy the wrong one, have to go back... Ship me a filter every 6 months? Awesome! THAT'S a company I see as "adding value". No affiliation, not even a subscriber -- just had a "duh" moment when I saw their ad.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
coleifer 9y ago
I made a recurring google calendar alert to solve this problem...
emag 9y ago
I just let my thermostat alert me, based on run time. It worked with my old programmable, it works with my Nest (yeah, I know). And since I buy 3-packs of the filters, when I get down to the last one, I just add "16x20x1 filters" to my shopping list. When I'm at Wallyworld or Home Despot/Blowes, I'm there for a reason, open my shopping list, and see the filters listed...
jedberg 9y ago
I signed up for Amazon's repeat delivery, which not only reminds me to change it (oh look a filter showed up time to change!) but it saved me money too. It's way cheaper than that subscription program (I looked at that too).

dorian-graph 9y ago

Why convenience? So people can go 'do what they love'? Or in reality, so people can spend more time on vapid social apps and feel like they're on top of trends?