3 ms·

You made the point I wanted to make. The problem is Enterprise, not a framework. I'll admit--the Microsoft stack is a walled garden. It offers some nice featur

You made the point I wanted to make. The problem is Enterprise, not a framework. I'll admit--the Microsoft stack is a walled garden. It offers some nice features like Visual Studio integrating with Visual Studio Team Services with its own issue tracker and build server and so on. If Microsoft supports your workflow or integrates with the tooling you like, awesome. If not, well, just wait and hope that it will someday support what you're looking for. That is the frustrating part of the Microsoft stack. It can be overcome with some architecture decisions at the outset of the project. You don't have to stay in the walled garden. But the Enterprise is where innovation dies. The Enterprise is where motivated developers' souls are sucked out as they are told "no" constantly. .NET isn't the problem.

lmm 9y ago
But .net is inherently enterprisey. You have to license all the things you're using, or did until recently - Visual Studio, SQL Server... you may not have to pay if you're a small business or whatever but it's always going to be a lot more effort than just clicking download. That has a chilling effect on people using these technologies for the side projects that become productive small businesses, and it compounds because if no-one's using that stack in these places then there's no open-source library ecosystem because there's no-one to create that.
- cwbrandsma 9y ago
  No different than the Java shops I've seen.
  - lmm 9y ago
    Very different in my experience; there's a lot more on maven central, because the toolchain and other popular components (e.g. mariadb) are freely available, so you can very easily spin up the same environment at home.
astine 9y ago
"I'll admit--the Microsoft stack is a walled garden. It offers some nice features like Visual Studio integrating with Visual Studio Team Services with its own issue tracker and build server and so on. If Microsoft supports your workflow or integrates with the tooling you like, awesome. If not, well, just wait and hope that it will someday support what you're looking for." To be fair, they are getting better about that. Git has almost as good support as TFS in Visual Studio these days and MS is even integrating Linux of all things into its latest Windows releases. If that trend continues, MS will eventually be much less of a walled garden.

lmm 9y ago

But .net is inherently enterprisey. You have to license all the things you're using, or did until recently - Visual Studio, SQL Server... you may not have to pay if you're a small business or whatever but it's always going to be a lot more effort than just clicking download. That has a chilling effect on people using these technologies for the side projects that become productive small businesses, and it compounds because if no-one's using that stack in these places then there's no open-source library ecosystem because there's no-one to create that.

cwbrandsma 9y ago
No different than the Java shops I've seen.
- lmm 9y ago
  Very different in my experience; there's a lot more on maven central, because the toolchain and other popular components (e.g. mariadb) are freely available, so you can very easily spin up the same environment at home.

astine 9y ago

"I'll admit--the Microsoft stack is a walled garden. It offers some nice features like Visual Studio integrating with Visual Studio Team Services with its own issue tracker and build server and so on. If Microsoft supports your workflow or integrates with the tooling you like, awesome. If not, well, just wait and hope that it will someday support what you're looking for." To be fair, they are getting better about that. Git has almost as good support as TFS in Visual Studio these days and MS is even integrating Linux of all things into its latest Windows releases. If that trend continues, MS will eventually be much less of a walled garden.