5 ms·

Seriously, let's just send 100s of robots. You can send: digging, sintering, dusting, pushing, lifting robots, and you can build any structure. Just keep send

Seriously, let's just send 100s of robots. You can send: digging, sintering, dusting, pushing, lifting robots, and you can build any structure. Just keep sending new robots till we can send humans, and the humans can repair what's there.

sgt 10y ago
I agree that you need to send robots. But robots right now on Earth are not capable of operating without a little human intervention now and then. That's why you need a moon crew - albeit a skeleton crew to start off with. They'll sort things out that need to be done on-site.
- jlebrech 10y ago
  if the robots breakdown somewhere that's out of the way, just send replacement robots. and when there are too many littering the place send astronauts to move them out of the way.
  - andai 10y ago
    Why not just add robot-moving robots to your list? ;)
pier25 10y ago
Nah we just send a couple hundred clones
- amorphid 10y ago
  I like the movie Moon. It deals with sending robots and people to mine Helium-3.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
Which robots? We can barely manage to keep rovers alive on Mars and they aren't lifting 500lbs space rocks. The Chinese couldn't keep their rover losing its drive train on the moon after 48 hours. The ESA has never had a moon rover. We're very, very far from industrious robots on Earth, let alone on the moon or mars. We aren't even building mega-structures with robots here outside of trivial edge cases, why do you think we can do it on the moon? Also from a cost per lbs perspective, swarms of giant building robots will cost more than the GDP of most nation states. A handful of astronauts with powertools working with ultra-light materials won't. For example, a small team can raise up Bigelow's mostly inflatable moon base concept in days: http://spaceindustrynews.com/nasa-and-bigelow-aerospace-make-plans-for-moon-base/ http://spaceindustrynews.com/nasa-and-bigelow-aerospace-make... No 50,000 lbs space mechs required.
- jlebrech 10y ago
  robots that can 3d print regolith into bricks, and ones that can pick and place.
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    I think you're greatly underestimating what it takes to mine regolith in vast quantities, transport it, produce it into something usable, then build heavy structures with automation. You're looking at 10,000+ lbs machines and many of them and with no heavy energy source. You're not running these off solar or a small RTG, so you're probably talking building a nuclear reactor on the moon just to power these juggernauts. Meanwhile human built lightweight structures are pretty much doable right now with a heavy human rated rocket like the upcoming SLS or SpaceX's upcoming heavy configuration.
    - jlebrech 10y ago
      I'm pretty sure there's lots of dust that can be sintered too.
justin66 10y ago
> Just keep sending new robots Figure out how to make robots that can make robots, and just send those.
Arizhel 10y ago
On big, big, big advantage here is that, unlike Mars for instance, robots on the Moon are literally 1.5 seconds away (3 seconds round-trip), as far as radio communications go. Remote-control in real-time isn't that hard. You'll have to go a little bit slow because of the 1.5-second delay in seeing what the robot sees, but it's perfectly manageable. The same just isn't true on Mars because it's around 5 minutes away (for a 10-minute round-trip). This means you can send up big robots that have little to no intelligence or automation, and are not much more than giant R/C cars with webcams. Seriously, we could just launch regular heavy construction equipment (earthmovers, bulldozers, etc.) rigged with cameras and remote controls; the real problem is the power source, since all those things run on fossil-fuel-burning engines here. So the challenge is making versions of these things which are battery-powered and can somehow be recharged with solar power. Oh yeah, I guess the other big difficulty is dealing with the Moon dust (regolith), which is notorious for getting in everything and fouling things up. But that shouldn't be that hard to deal with; our heavy equipment (and even things like cars) are already designed to handle harsh environments and dust. We'd probably need different elastomeric seals though since there's no atmosphere on the Moon. Edit: fixed Earth-to-moon and Earth-to-Mars delay times
- andai 10y ago
  Re: fossil fuels: just put oxygen tank next to fuel tank!
- avz 10y ago
  > robots on the Moon are literally 3 seconds away (6 seconds round-trip) Moon's apogee (point of furthest distance from Earth) is 405,400km [1]. Speed of light is roughly 300,000km/s [2]. Robots on the Moon are 1.35 seconds away (2.7s round-trip). Even with equipment delays I can't see how you could arrive at 6 seconds round-trip. > Mars [...] is a minimum of 15 minutes away. Mars' aphelion (point of furthest distance from the Sun) is 1.67 AU [3][4]. Earth is about 1 AU from the Sun (by definition). Also, Sun is ~500 light-seconds away from Earth. Thus, at conjunction the distance from Earth to Mars is not more than 0.7 AU or 350 seconds (5.8 minutes). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars [4] You could also arrive it using Titus-Bode law [4]: for Mars n=4 so distance is 0.4 + 0.3 * 2^(4-2) = 0.4 * 0.3 * 4 = 1.6 AU. [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titius%E2%80%93Bode_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titius%E2%80%93Bode_law EDIT: formatting
Houshalter 10y ago
I really believe (mostly) self replicating robots are necessary for any serious space colonization. Starting with just humans is way more effort than it's worth. Imagine just sending a few rockets to the moon. Waiting a few years, and then humans arrive with a base and infrastructure already set up for them. Self replicating robots don't necessarily need to be super high tech. A well stocked machine shop plus a simple robot operator could manufacture 99% of it's own equipment. I once saw an interesting paper proposing a series of small robots on tracks that could produce more tracks and more robots. Even if this process is very slow, it's exponential. Soon you have 10x as many robots as you started with. Then 100x, and then 1000x...
- mindcrime 10y ago
  I really believe (mostly) self replicating robots are necessary for any serious space colonization. Starting with just humans is way more effort than it's worth. Imagine just sending a few rockets to the moon. Waiting a few years, and then humans arrive with a base and infrastructure already set up for them. Last week's episode of Doctor Who had an interesting take on that scenario: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_%28Doctor_Who%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_%28Doctor_Who%29
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tannhauser23 10y ago
  Oh yeah, a NASA working group suggested this idea back in 1980: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19830007077.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/198300... The idea is to send an initial 'seed' factory that creates masses of simple robots that mine resources and, once critical mass has been achieved, build new factories. The ideas in the report seemed like science fiction four decades ago, but maybe they are more attainable today? I don't know enough about modern robots to know. This seems like an interesting area for a private company to tackle, since tech like this most certainly has applications here on Earth.

sgt 10y ago

I agree that you need to send robots. But robots right now on Earth are not capable of operating without a little human intervention now and then. That's why you need a moon crew - albeit a skeleton crew to start off with. They'll sort things out that need to be done on-site.

jlebrech 10y ago
if the robots breakdown somewhere that's out of the way, just send replacement robots. and when there are too many littering the place send astronauts to move them out of the way.
- andai 10y ago
  Why not just add robot-moving robots to your list? ;)

pier25 10y ago

Nah we just send a couple hundred clones

amorphid 10y ago
I like the movie Moon. It deals with sending robots and people to mine Helium-3.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

Which robots? We can barely manage to keep rovers alive on Mars and they aren't lifting 500lbs space rocks. The Chinese couldn't keep their rover losing its drive train on the moon after 48 hours. The ESA has never had a moon rover. We're very, very far from industrious robots on Earth, let alone on the moon or mars. We aren't even building mega-structures with robots here outside of trivial edge cases, why do you think we can do it on the moon? Also from a cost per lbs perspective, swarms of giant building robots will cost more than the GDP of most nation states. A handful of astronauts with powertools working with ultra-light materials won't. For example, a small team can raise up Bigelow's mostly inflatable moon base concept in days: http://spaceindustrynews.com/nasa-and-bigelow-aerospace-make-plans-for-moon-base/ http://spaceindustrynews.com/nasa-and-bigelow-aerospace-make... No 50,000 lbs space mechs required.

jlebrech 10y ago
robots that can 3d print regolith into bricks, and ones that can pick and place.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  I think you're greatly underestimating what it takes to mine regolith in vast quantities, transport it, produce it into something usable, then build heavy structures with automation. You're looking at 10,000+ lbs machines and many of them and with no heavy energy source. You're not running these off solar or a small RTG, so you're probably talking building a nuclear reactor on the moon just to power these juggernauts. Meanwhile human built lightweight structures are pretty much doable right now with a heavy human rated rocket like the upcoming SLS or SpaceX's upcoming heavy configuration.
  - jlebrech 10y ago
    I'm pretty sure there's lots of dust that can be sintered too.

justin66 10y ago

> Just keep sending new robots Figure out how to make robots that can make robots, and just send those.

Arizhel 10y ago

On big, big, big advantage here is that, unlike Mars for instance, robots on the Moon are literally 1.5 seconds away (3 seconds round-trip), as far as radio communications go. Remote-control in real-time isn't that hard. You'll have to go a little bit slow because of the 1.5-second delay in seeing what the robot sees, but it's perfectly manageable. The same just isn't true on Mars because it's around 5 minutes away (for a 10-minute round-trip). This means you can send up big robots that have little to no intelligence or automation, and are not much more than giant R/C cars with webcams. Seriously, we could just launch regular heavy construction equipment (earthmovers, bulldozers, etc.) rigged with cameras and remote controls; the real problem is the power source, since all those things run on fossil-fuel-burning engines here. So the challenge is making versions of these things which are battery-powered and can somehow be recharged with solar power. Oh yeah, I guess the other big difficulty is dealing with the Moon dust (regolith), which is notorious for getting in everything and fouling things up. But that shouldn't be that hard to deal with; our heavy equipment (and even things like cars) are already designed to handle harsh environments and dust. We'd probably need different elastomeric seals though since there's no atmosphere on the Moon. Edit: fixed Earth-to-moon and Earth-to-Mars delay times

andai 10y ago
Re: fossil fuels: just put oxygen tank next to fuel tank!
avz 10y ago
> robots on the Moon are literally 3 seconds away (6 seconds round-trip) Moon's apogee (point of furthest distance from Earth) is 405,400km [1]. Speed of light is roughly 300,000km/s [2]. Robots on the Moon are 1.35 seconds away (2.7s round-trip). Even with equipment delays I can't see how you could arrive at 6 seconds round-trip. > Mars [...] is a minimum of 15 minutes away. Mars' aphelion (point of furthest distance from the Sun) is 1.67 AU [3][4]. Earth is about 1 AU from the Sun (by definition). Also, Sun is ~500 light-seconds away from Earth. Thus, at conjunction the distance from Earth to Mars is not more than 0.7 AU or 350 seconds (5.8 minutes). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars [4] You could also arrive it using Titus-Bode law [4]: for Mars n=4 so distance is 0.4 + 0.3 * 2^(4-2) = 0.4 * 0.3 * 4 = 1.6 AU. [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titius%E2%80%93Bode_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titius%E2%80%93Bode_law EDIT: formatting

Houshalter 10y ago

I really believe (mostly) self replicating robots are necessary for any serious space colonization. Starting with just humans is way more effort than it's worth. Imagine just sending a few rockets to the moon. Waiting a few years, and then humans arrive with a base and infrastructure already set up for them. Self replicating robots don't necessarily need to be super high tech. A well stocked machine shop plus a simple robot operator could manufacture 99% of it's own equipment. I once saw an interesting paper proposing a series of small robots on tracks that could produce more tracks and more robots. Even if this process is very slow, it's exponential. Soon you have 10x as many robots as you started with. Then 100x, and then 1000x...

mindcrime 10y ago
I really believe (mostly) self replicating robots are necessary for any serious space colonization. Starting with just humans is way more effort than it's worth. Imagine just sending a few rockets to the moon. Waiting a few years, and then humans arrive with a base and infrastructure already set up for them. Last week's episode of Doctor Who had an interesting take on that scenario: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_%28Doctor_Who%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_%28Doctor_Who%29
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tannhauser23 10y ago
Oh yeah, a NASA working group suggested this idea back in 1980: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19830007077.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/198300... The idea is to send an initial 'seed' factory that creates masses of simple robots that mine resources and, once critical mass has been achieved, build new factories. The ideas in the report seemed like science fiction four decades ago, but maybe they are more attainable today? I don't know enough about modern robots to know. This seems like an interesting area for a private company to tackle, since tech like this most certainly has applications here on Earth.