5 ms·

The rewards of being a good developer are too low anyway unless it's an impulse that you simply must satisfy for yourself. You'll likely just end up putting ano

The rewards of being a good developer are too low anyway unless it's an impulse that you simply must satisfy for yourself. You'll likely just end up putting another couple of zeroes on someone else's wealth while they give you a fraction of that. I'd find something more worthwhile in life to struggle for.

dev360 10y ago
Getting older, I can see the draw though. Good pay, good benefits, easy work. Something to be said about that. I'd just have to numb myself with opiates or something in order to stay calm, non-confrontational and mediocre.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Having been on both sides of the fence I came to realize that in spite politics, I rather work in enterprise environments than startup ones. Maybe it is an age thing.
- sidlls 10y ago
  Please define "good pay" and "good benefits". For me, the "pay" part would have to be substantial. The tangible benefits I currently have are average. The flextime is fantastic though (I work remotely at least once or twice a week and there is a very flexible notion of "business hours").
  - kzisme 10y ago
    (Having only been at one place thus far my opinion may be different) I've yet to come across someone who has been "happy" with their benefits package. I don't even take advantage of mine because it's such a large chunk for a single person, and yields no incentives - these I would likely consider tangible benefits (aside from the obvious). I could see it being nice if I had a family though, but most people I've spoken to use their significant others benefits package. The one thing I hope to always have wherever I work is flexible working hours. I very much dislike the stigma of "oh you're not first into the office!". Maybe it's just me though who has ran into this.
  - dev360 10y ago
    Everything is relative. I think its hard to generalize. There are lots of startups that are much more lenient with remote work, and many that embrace the basecamp-style company values. In general, if you are not in SV or maybe NYC, big open source job markets, you tend to hit a pay wall pretty quickly. It is much harder for me to find a startup that pays as well as a more traditional IT shop would pay me. I can find a 130-140k job in .NET here in South Florida with relative ease. For open source, there are maybe a handful of companies willing to pay that kind of money. In general, these enterprise places will offer very good benefits (vacation/401k w contribution/paid healthcare) and the work is not hard in comparison. At startups, its just spottier. Last place I worked paid me same as before but didn't contribute towards my healthcare.. That was an extra $1300 / month that had to come out of my paycheck and an expensive lesson.
- jmspring 10y ago
  Another downside however is as those jobs go away, the numbing of skills can come back to bite at finding jobs down the road.
kzisme 10y ago
What would you consider a good developer? (technical skill vs adding business value) I'm constantly curious about what other people are working on, or if they are re-writing the same CRUD app over and over.
- FLUX-YOU 10y ago
  >What would you consider a good developer? You can convince people you are a good developer. It's only a title that other people give you -- there's not an objective, definitive test for it and you can use a number of methods to get that title (actual technical skill, social skills, outright fraud). And of course, if you convince a good number of people, it's much harder for you to lose that title. I know that sounds cheeky but if you look at interviews and how ridiculous everyone thinks those are, you know we don't have a good technical test to actually prove if anyone is a good developer because the test is so different than actual day-to-day operations we do. If we knew about that test, we'd be using it, and we'd have a hell of lot less "INTERVIEWING IS BROKEN" blog posts. All of those tests are built on opinions on what a good developer ought to be, and there are tons of variations. Being a good developer and a good computer scientist are two distinct things with some overlapping skills. The real test is just putting someone in the position but that can be untenable for both sides since they cannot afford to spend the time and money for that sort of accuracy. I have less knowledge about business value but anything that adds to the company's sustainability or profitability or efficiency (to include non-profit/not-for-profits) is likely adding business value.

dev360 10y ago

Getting older, I can see the draw though. Good pay, good benefits, easy work. Something to be said about that. I'd just have to numb myself with opiates or something in order to stay calm, non-confrontational and mediocre.

pjmlp 10y ago
Having been on both sides of the fence I came to realize that in spite politics, I rather work in enterprise environments than startup ones. Maybe it is an age thing.
sidlls 10y ago
Please define "good pay" and "good benefits". For me, the "pay" part would have to be substantial. The tangible benefits I currently have are average. The flextime is fantastic though (I work remotely at least once or twice a week and there is a very flexible notion of "business hours").
- kzisme 10y ago
  (Having only been at one place thus far my opinion may be different) I've yet to come across someone who has been "happy" with their benefits package. I don't even take advantage of mine because it's such a large chunk for a single person, and yields no incentives - these I would likely consider tangible benefits (aside from the obvious). I could see it being nice if I had a family though, but most people I've spoken to use their significant others benefits package. The one thing I hope to always have wherever I work is flexible working hours. I very much dislike the stigma of "oh you're not first into the office!". Maybe it's just me though who has ran into this.
- dev360 10y ago
  Everything is relative. I think its hard to generalize. There are lots of startups that are much more lenient with remote work, and many that embrace the basecamp-style company values. In general, if you are not in SV or maybe NYC, big open source job markets, you tend to hit a pay wall pretty quickly. It is much harder for me to find a startup that pays as well as a more traditional IT shop would pay me. I can find a 130-140k job in .NET here in South Florida with relative ease. For open source, there are maybe a handful of companies willing to pay that kind of money. In general, these enterprise places will offer very good benefits (vacation/401k w contribution/paid healthcare) and the work is not hard in comparison. At startups, its just spottier. Last place I worked paid me same as before but didn't contribute towards my healthcare.. That was an extra $1300 / month that had to come out of my paycheck and an expensive lesson.
jmspring 10y ago
Another downside however is as those jobs go away, the numbing of skills can come back to bite at finding jobs down the road.

kzisme 10y ago

What would you consider a good developer? (technical skill vs adding business value) I'm constantly curious about what other people are working on, or if they are re-writing the same CRUD app over and over.

FLUX-YOU 10y ago
>What would you consider a good developer? You can convince people you are a good developer. It's only a title that other people give you -- there's not an objective, definitive test for it and you can use a number of methods to get that title (actual technical skill, social skills, outright fraud). And of course, if you convince a good number of people, it's much harder for you to lose that title. I know that sounds cheeky but if you look at interviews and how ridiculous everyone thinks those are, you know we don't have a good technical test to actually prove if anyone is a good developer because the test is so different than actual day-to-day operations we do. If we knew about that test, we'd be using it, and we'd have a hell of lot less "INTERVIEWING IS BROKEN" blog posts. All of those tests are built on opinions on what a good developer ought to be, and there are tons of variations. Being a good developer and a good computer scientist are two distinct things with some overlapping skills. The real test is just putting someone in the position but that can be untenable for both sides since they cannot afford to spend the time and money for that sort of accuracy. I have less knowledge about business value but anything that adds to the company's sustainability or profitability or efficiency (to include non-profit/not-for-profits) is likely adding business value.