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Am I the only one getting heebie-jeebies over the prospect of drones being used for purposes of terrorism? It sounds like these guys (in the article) are just j

Am I the only one getting heebie-jeebies over the prospect of drones being used for purposes of terrorism? It sounds like these guys (in the article) are just jack-asses but it doesn't seem hard to imagine bad actors doing quite a bit worse. I'm also scared of the prospect that autonomous drones might be considerably harder to stop and/or catch the perpetrators before or afterwards. It also seems likely that this will be something that is relatively cheap and widely available - you might have to be a serious actor lay hands on a SAM, but a lone nutter can probably afford a drone or ten.

brian-armstrong 10y ago
You've just summarized why intel dragnets exist, I think
hengheng 10y ago
Look at the "ISIS drones" made from hobbyking parts. Pardon the pun, but it's no rocket science.
ithinkinstereo 10y ago
ISIS has been using drones in the battlefields of Syria and Iraq for some time now. Originally they served as in a recon role, now they're used to guide VBIEDs as well as drop small bombs/grenades onto enemy troops.
- glangdale 10y ago
  Whoa. I suppose I had the homegrown terrorist more in mind - all those self-radicalizing wackos who still might be able to follow an online blueprint. Anyhow, this looks like a thing, as a number of commenters have said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/use-of-weaponized-drones-by-isis-spurs-terrorism-fears/2017/02/21/9d83d51e-f382-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/use-o...
sfifs 10y ago
Already very much a thing and has caused casualties in the middle east including Western soldiers. Google around.
baddox 10y ago
It doesn't seem like much of a threat at the margin, given how easy it is to get much more practical and effective weapons like firearms and automobiles. For a relatively sophisticated group that needs aerial reconnaissance, drones certainly slash costs, but for actual terrorist attacks on citizen targets I'm not particularly worried.
- glangdale 10y ago
  Sure, there are already all sorts of ways for some fruitcake to attack and kill a number of civilians. However, what disturbs me about the citizen target scenario that it expands the scope (locations and timing) of what can be targeted and reduces the requirement that the attacker has to be willing to accept a near-certainty of death or capture during the attack. If someone wants to drive a truck through a farmers market or the like, it's pretty hard to stop them. What worries me is that this sort of technology allows that someone to instead to choose to attack something like a concert, public rally or political event with a greater symbolic significance despite a (2D) police perimeter, fences, bollards, etc. It may not increase the casualty risk but it may certainly increase the "theater" potential (which has traditionally been a big part of terrorism - witness the fixation of airports/airlines).
- cardiffspaceman 10y ago
  Speaking of effective weapons, Tamil Tigers did aerial bombardment in the latter stages of their rebellion: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6494121.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6494121.stm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tigers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tigers It is stated in the above that the LTTE forces smuggled small Czech planes in pieces.
toomanybeersies 10y ago
This is already happening in Iraq and Syria. Daesh have been using them for quite some time now, with home made bombs made from rifle grenades. Here's one such example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mFARET5aU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mFARET5aU This is exactly why a lot of police forces and militaries are developing anti-drone tactics, including anti-drone eagles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiinhvBCXE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiinhvBCXE8), RF based 'guns', and drones with big nets to catch other drones. As far as drones flying into planes goes though, I'd say there's not too much to worry about there, jet airliners go too fast for drones to be an effective threat. No more effective than small arms would be, at least.
- slau 10y ago
  Pretty sure that a drone carrying a chunk of metal or stone, and crashing itself into one of the jet intakes of a plane that is taking off is a great way to instill terror into airline passengers. Most drone pilots would have no problem placing them in the path of the jet intake at the last second. Replace the slab of concrete with a grenade, for added fear.
  - dingaling 10y ago
    All modern ( post-1950) commercial airliners are certificated to continue take-off with one engine failing completely. Many passengers wouldn't even realise other than a reduction of noise. Furthermore the engine casings are designed to retain thrown blades. A grenade is fairly low-energy in comparison.
    - pdelbarba 10y ago
      There was a case in the early A380s, Qantas Flight 32, where an oil issue (IIRC) caused a hub failure in on of the four engines and nearly brought the plane down while it was in cruise. A grenade causing all the blades to separate instantly would not have much trouble causing damage outside the engine containment. You could cause hydraulic failures for flight controls on that wing and fuel tank fires pretty easily. Takeoff is a very critical phase of flight. Instantaneous engine failure plus partial control surface loss and fuel fires could easily overwhelm a pilot
dba7dba 10y ago
Out of Syria, there is video clip of a drone dropping a small grenade, which explodes near the open hatch of a tank. This killed or severely wounded the commander of the tank whose upper body was exposed as he was trying to scan the surrounding area. A small drone worth a few hundred bucks and some home made mechanism for dropping a grenade effectively took a main battle tank out of action. The grenade drop was pretty lucky but these drones definitely are being explored actively by all sides for use in armed conflict. It seems a lot of ground based measures are being explored but imho, we will see drones with small guns/nets/missiles that will be used to hunt other drones. It often comes to this. Tank is often the best countermeasure against another tank. And a jet fighter against another jet fighter.
- vkou 10y ago
  A stray 25 cent bullet can also kill or severely wound a tank commander.
zkms 10y ago
Angry people with explosives will find ways to deliver them to their targets alas; think of it as the 21st century version of "the bomber will always get through". In fact, drones are actually pretty shitty in terms of capacity compared to the alternatives (like lorries and improvised mortars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrack_buster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrack_buster).
jungletek 10y ago
>Am I the only one getting heebie-jeebies over the prospect of drones being used for purposes of terrorism? Doubtful, given how terrorism is the current bogeyman being used to push irrational fear upon those that can't think critically and/or don't understand statistics and probability. Where do you live that you're so scared of everything? Were you always so afraid or do you think media/propaganda/disinformation have conditioned you? Not trolling here, just genuinely curious as to why terrorism is part of your threat model...

brian-armstrong 10y ago

You've just summarized why intel dragnets exist, I think

hengheng 10y ago

Look at the "ISIS drones" made from hobbyking parts. Pardon the pun, but it's no rocket science.

ithinkinstereo 10y ago

ISIS has been using drones in the battlefields of Syria and Iraq for some time now. Originally they served as in a recon role, now they're used to guide VBIEDs as well as drop small bombs/grenades onto enemy troops.

glangdale 10y ago
Whoa. I suppose I had the homegrown terrorist more in mind - all those self-radicalizing wackos who still might be able to follow an online blueprint. Anyhow, this looks like a thing, as a number of commenters have said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/use-of-weaponized-drones-by-isis-spurs-terrorism-fears/2017/02/21/9d83d51e-f382-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/use-o...

sfifs 10y ago

Already very much a thing and has caused casualties in the middle east including Western soldiers. Google around.

baddox 10y ago

It doesn't seem like much of a threat at the margin, given how easy it is to get much more practical and effective weapons like firearms and automobiles. For a relatively sophisticated group that needs aerial reconnaissance, drones certainly slash costs, but for actual terrorist attacks on citizen targets I'm not particularly worried.

glangdale 10y ago
Sure, there are already all sorts of ways for some fruitcake to attack and kill a number of civilians. However, what disturbs me about the citizen target scenario that it expands the scope (locations and timing) of what can be targeted and reduces the requirement that the attacker has to be willing to accept a near-certainty of death or capture during the attack. If someone wants to drive a truck through a farmers market or the like, it's pretty hard to stop them. What worries me is that this sort of technology allows that someone to instead to choose to attack something like a concert, public rally or political event with a greater symbolic significance despite a (2D) police perimeter, fences, bollards, etc. It may not increase the casualty risk but it may certainly increase the "theater" potential (which has traditionally been a big part of terrorism - witness the fixation of airports/airlines).
cardiffspaceman 10y ago
Speaking of effective weapons, Tamil Tigers did aerial bombardment in the latter stages of their rebellion: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6494121.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6494121.stm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tigers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tigers It is stated in the above that the LTTE forces smuggled small Czech planes in pieces.

toomanybeersies 10y ago

This is already happening in Iraq and Syria. Daesh have been using them for quite some time now, with home made bombs made from rifle grenades. Here's one such example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mFARET5aU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mFARET5aU This is exactly why a lot of police forces and militaries are developing anti-drone tactics, including anti-drone eagles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiinhvBCXE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiinhvBCXE8), RF based 'guns', and drones with big nets to catch other drones. As far as drones flying into planes goes though, I'd say there's not too much to worry about there, jet airliners go too fast for drones to be an effective threat. No more effective than small arms would be, at least.

slau 10y ago
Pretty sure that a drone carrying a chunk of metal or stone, and crashing itself into one of the jet intakes of a plane that is taking off is a great way to instill terror into airline passengers. Most drone pilots would have no problem placing them in the path of the jet intake at the last second. Replace the slab of concrete with a grenade, for added fear.
- dingaling 10y ago
  All modern ( post-1950) commercial airliners are certificated to continue take-off with one engine failing completely. Many passengers wouldn't even realise other than a reduction of noise. Furthermore the engine casings are designed to retain thrown blades. A grenade is fairly low-energy in comparison.
  - pdelbarba 10y ago
    There was a case in the early A380s, Qantas Flight 32, where an oil issue (IIRC) caused a hub failure in on of the four engines and nearly brought the plane down while it was in cruise. A grenade causing all the blades to separate instantly would not have much trouble causing damage outside the engine containment. You could cause hydraulic failures for flight controls on that wing and fuel tank fires pretty easily. Takeoff is a very critical phase of flight. Instantaneous engine failure plus partial control surface loss and fuel fires could easily overwhelm a pilot

dba7dba 10y ago

Out of Syria, there is video clip of a drone dropping a small grenade, which explodes near the open hatch of a tank. This killed or severely wounded the commander of the tank whose upper body was exposed as he was trying to scan the surrounding area. A small drone worth a few hundred bucks and some home made mechanism for dropping a grenade effectively took a main battle tank out of action. The grenade drop was pretty lucky but these drones definitely are being explored actively by all sides for use in armed conflict. It seems a lot of ground based measures are being explored but imho, we will see drones with small guns/nets/missiles that will be used to hunt other drones. It often comes to this. Tank is often the best countermeasure against another tank. And a jet fighter against another jet fighter.

vkou 10y ago
A stray 25 cent bullet can also kill or severely wound a tank commander.

zkms 10y ago

Angry people with explosives will find ways to deliver them to their targets alas; think of it as the 21st century version of "the bomber will always get through". In fact, drones are actually pretty shitty in terms of capacity compared to the alternatives (like lorries and improvised mortars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrack_buster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrack_buster).

jungletek 10y ago

>Am I the only one getting heebie-jeebies over the prospect of drones being used for purposes of terrorism? Doubtful, given how terrorism is the current bogeyman being used to push irrational fear upon those that can't think critically and/or don't understand statistics and probability. Where do you live that you're so scared of everything? Were you always so afraid or do you think media/propaganda/disinformation have conditioned you? Not trolling here, just genuinely curious as to why terrorism is part of your threat model...