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Writing doesn’t show up in a vacuum. It’s a product of needing scribes to manage complicated supply chains, tax collection, property boundary recording, dispute

Writing doesn’t show up in a vacuum. It’s a product of needing scribes to manage complicated supply chains, tax collection, property boundary recording, dispute adjudication, and most of all debt tracking. Those come along with population density, social stratification, inherited wealth, etc., which are part of feedback loops that start with agriculture and permanent settlement. For instance in Mesopotamia, cuneiform writing started out as a shorthand representation of little piles of clay tokens representing various stored goods (grain, beer, etc.)

will_brown 10y ago
>Those come along with population density, social stratification, inherited wealth, etc., which are part of feedback loops that start with agriculture and permanent settlement. I agree writing doesn't show up in a vacuum. The cuneiform clay tablets from Mesopotamia are the oldest record of "written language" but certainly not the oldest form of writing. At least according to the current historical record argiculture dates to 12,000bc while written numbers (tallies made of wood and bone) date back 25,000-35,000 years. So unless there is some as of yet discovered agricultural civilization(s) - I think very likely - there is a problem with your feedback loop compared to the historical record: writing(numbers)came long before agriculture.
- Balgair 10y ago
  To add to this, pyromancy, specifically scapulimancy, may be some of the earliest forms of writing, and that was mostly used for divination and other 'religious' rituals, we think. I couldn't find the exact source, but some samples in ...China?... may be scapulimantic symbols used for fortune telling and the like that predate the cuneiform tablets. Again, conjecture and I can't find the source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapulimancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapulimancy Edit: Found it, Oracle bones were used in the early 1200's BC, which does not predate cunieform usage from the 3500's BC : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Bones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Bones Also, wow! -3500 is when writing started, damn that is a long time ago.

will_brown 10y ago

>Those come along with population density, social stratification, inherited wealth, etc., which are part of feedback loops that start with agriculture and permanent settlement. I agree writing doesn't show up in a vacuum. The cuneiform clay tablets from Mesopotamia are the oldest record of "written language" but certainly not the oldest form of writing. At least according to the current historical record argiculture dates to 12,000bc while written numbers (tallies made of wood and bone) date back 25,000-35,000 years. So unless there is some as of yet discovered agricultural civilization(s) - I think very likely - there is a problem with your feedback loop compared to the historical record: writing(numbers)came long before agriculture.

Balgair 10y ago
To add to this, pyromancy, specifically scapulimancy, may be some of the earliest forms of writing, and that was mostly used for divination and other 'religious' rituals, we think. I couldn't find the exact source, but some samples in ...China?... may be scapulimantic symbols used for fortune telling and the like that predate the cuneiform tablets. Again, conjecture and I can't find the source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapulimancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapulimancy Edit: Found it, Oracle bones were used in the early 1200's BC, which does not predate cunieform usage from the 3500's BC : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Bones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_Bones Also, wow! -3500 is when writing started, damn that is a long time ago.