8 ms·

There is a hidden cost of ECC with regards to the chipset. None of the cheap chipsets support it, so on any home build, it's going to be expensive.

by rocqua 10y ago

binarycrusader 10y ago
Not true with Ryzen, as long as you find unregistered ECC acceptable. Somewhat not true with Intel, as some of the lower end Xeons now support it.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Only ASROCK currently has BIOS/UEFI support for ECC.
  - binarycrusader 10y ago
    BIOSTAR specs list ECC support, but I don't know if it has specific BIOS/UEFI options for it.
- snuxoll 10y ago
  AFAIK all of the Xeon chips support ECC, every Xeon E3 chip (which uses the desktop socket) I've looked at includes it.
  - binarycrusader 10y ago
    Sorry, I was a little obtuse. What I was inferring was that historically, only higher-priced server chips from Intel had ECC support. In 2013, Intel launched the v3 lower-end Xeon E3s server chips that were closer to the price of the consumer Intel chips and offer ECC with comparable clock speeds. Of course, all of those only have 4 cores instead of 8. Yes, all of the E3s support ecc, but Xeon's didn't always support ECC until the launch of the Xeon E3 as far as I can tell.
    - yuhong 10y ago
      There was the Xeon 3400 even before that. Trivia: it supported registered ECC, but only x8 chips and not x4.
    - wtallis 10y ago
      Xeon has implied ECC support for as long as Xeons have had integrated memory controllers, which is just a generation or two further back than the first Xeon E3 product line. Before that, ECC support was a function of the northbridge.
      - binarycrusader 10y ago
        Hmm, perhaps this is a quirk of ark.intel.com then; it shows that (as an example) that the Xeon X5690 supported ECC, but the Xeon L5638 did not. The list on WikiPedia also seems to imply that not all models did historically, perhaps this reflects the northbridge change?
- paulmd 10y ago
  Ryzen ECC support is a mess, no AM4 motherboard currently on the market has implemented ECC support fully and properly (not even Asrock). It's better than nothing but you would be a fool to rely on it. http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/75030-ecc-memory-amds-ryzen-deep-dive-5.html http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-review... "Kinda sorta works but the manufacturer won't stand behind it" is bunch of bullshit. If your data is worth using ECC in the first place - it's worth using a platform that has fully-implemented support, that has passed validation, that you know is going to work properly when you need it. Until that happens - this is an application where Ryzen is simply not appropriate. All of the modern i3s and Pentiums support ECC, but you do need the server chipset instead of the cheap consumer stuff. Good news though - those "expensive server boards" are roughly the same price as say, an AM4 motherboard with an X370 chipset. Heck, you can buy a basic off-lease ThinkServer TS140 for only about $300. You'll only have about 4 GB of RAM but it's a shell to start building out (which is cheaper than having an OEM assemble it for you anyway).
  - binarycrusader 10y ago
    Ryzen ECC support is a mess, no AM4 motherboard currently on the market has implemented ECC support fully and properly (not even Asrock). It's better than nothing but you would be a fool to rely on it. Ryzen motherboard support is what is agreeably a "mess", not the processor itself, but at least it's functional on ASRock and select Gigabyte boards. As for "a fool to rely on it", not sure what you mean by that. The error correction itself is done by the hardware. Other than calling the initialization routines and providing logging/halt, the BIOS/UEFI isn't responsible for anything afaik. I'm well aware that this isn't the full grade of ECC support offered by higher-end Xeons and chipset combos, but it's better than nothing and it's affordable. Also, no offense, but I'm not going to rely on hardwarecanucks as an authority on this subject. All of the modern i3s and Pentiums support ECC, but you do need the server chipset instead of the cheap consumer stuff. Good news though - those "expensive server boards" are roughly the same price as say, an AM4 motherboard with an X370 chipset. The goal isn't ECC alone, at least not for me, the goal is an 8-core system with good single-threaded performance and ECC at a reasonable price. As far as I know, only Ryzen offers that. So for me, I'm looking at the possibility of getting a single system that can give me decent gaming performance, good development performance, ECC support, and more, all at a price that leaves me with money for other components.
eightysixfour 10y ago
Fortunately the new AMD Ryzen processors support ECC in the memory controller, unfortunately none of the boards seem to be testing/certifying it yet and the UEFI on a lot of the boards is a mess right now. Hopefully more consumer boards support/certify it since it is already there on the memory controller.
- rlonstein 10y ago
  The Asrock 370 boards officially support ECC, though I've read that various BIOS/UEFI versions don't: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/655e7v/all_asrock_am4_motherboards_support_ecc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/655e7v/all_asrock_am4_... People are reporting that the Asrock 350 boards do too. Gigabyte lists some ECC modules on the compatibility list but some report that it isn't working right.
  - eightysixfour 10y ago
    Good to know, I'm waiting for all of these boards to UEFI stuff to stabilize before I go shopping. Seems a bit messy right now.
xorblurb 10y ago
If you use your computing in a way that makes you think about the potential interest of ECC, the price you are likely to target for a rig that fit your needs is extremely probably high enough to get some nice ECC...
awqrre 10y ago
Not only cost, it can also be harder to find a motherboard with ECC support and with all the components/inputs/outputs that you would want in a desktop computer.
- mafro 10y ago
  See sibling comment: I just picked up an ASRock C236 WSI
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
dogma1138 10y ago
There are cheap chipsets that support the entry level workstation ones from Intel you can get a motherboard for 65$ with ECC support you don't need to go to x99. I have a few home storage servers running on the low end Pentiums with ECC support on these.
dom0 10y ago
No chipset has supported ECC for quite a while: Flipping some configuration bits depending on the chipset used is purely an Intel money extraction-engine (Intel ME technology®©™). Server / workstation class boards normally all do support ECC, though, so no real issue in practice.
greenshackle2 10y ago
Some older AMD desktop chips support ECC. I built a home NAS from an old board and Phenom II 545 CPU I had lying around, fortuitously they happen to support ECC. DDR2 unregistered ECC ram was a bit of a pain to find though.
mafro 10y ago
I just last week bought an ASRock C236 WSI [1] for £170. 8GB of ECC RAM was £80. Granted that five years ago I needed to pay more than twice that amount - so I skipped the ECC :p [1] http://asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C236%20WSI#Specifications http://asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C236%2...

There is a hidden cost of ECC with regards to the chipset. None of the cheap chipsets support it, so on any home build, it's going to be expensive.

by rocqua 10y ago

There is a hidden cost of ECC with regards to the chipset. None of the cheap chipsets support it, so on any home build, it's going to be expensive.

binarycrusader 10y ago

Not true with Ryzen, as long as you find unregistered ECC acceptable. Somewhat not true with Intel, as some of the lower end Xeons now support it.

dogma1138 10y ago
Only ASROCK currently has BIOS/UEFI support for ECC.
- binarycrusader 10y ago
  BIOSTAR specs list ECC support, but I don't know if it has specific BIOS/UEFI options for it.
snuxoll 10y ago
AFAIK all of the Xeon chips support ECC, every Xeon E3 chip (which uses the desktop socket) I've looked at includes it.
- binarycrusader 10y ago
  Sorry, I was a little obtuse. What I was inferring was that historically, only higher-priced server chips from Intel had ECC support. In 2013, Intel launched the v3 lower-end Xeon E3s server chips that were closer to the price of the consumer Intel chips and offer ECC with comparable clock speeds. Of course, all of those only have 4 cores instead of 8. Yes, all of the E3s support ecc, but Xeon's didn't always support ECC until the launch of the Xeon E3 as far as I can tell.
  - yuhong 10y ago
    There was the Xeon 3400 even before that. Trivia: it supported registered ECC, but only x8 chips and not x4.
  - wtallis 10y ago
    Xeon has implied ECC support for as long as Xeons have had integrated memory controllers, which is just a generation or two further back than the first Xeon E3 product line. Before that, ECC support was a function of the northbridge.
    - binarycrusader 10y ago
      Hmm, perhaps this is a quirk of ark.intel.com then; it shows that (as an example) that the Xeon X5690 supported ECC, but the Xeon L5638 did not. The list on WikiPedia also seems to imply that not all models did historically, perhaps this reflects the northbridge change?
paulmd 10y ago
Ryzen ECC support is a mess, no AM4 motherboard currently on the market has implemented ECC support fully and properly (not even Asrock). It's better than nothing but you would be a fool to rely on it. http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/75030-ecc-memory-amds-ryzen-deep-dive-5.html http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-review... "Kinda sorta works but the manufacturer won't stand behind it" is bunch of bullshit. If your data is worth using ECC in the first place - it's worth using a platform that has fully-implemented support, that has passed validation, that you know is going to work properly when you need it. Until that happens - this is an application where Ryzen is simply not appropriate. All of the modern i3s and Pentiums support ECC, but you do need the server chipset instead of the cheap consumer stuff. Good news though - those "expensive server boards" are roughly the same price as say, an AM4 motherboard with an X370 chipset. Heck, you can buy a basic off-lease ThinkServer TS140 for only about $300. You'll only have about 4 GB of RAM but it's a shell to start building out (which is cheaper than having an OEM assemble it for you anyway).
- binarycrusader 10y ago
  Ryzen ECC support is a mess, no AM4 motherboard currently on the market has implemented ECC support fully and properly (not even Asrock). It's better than nothing but you would be a fool to rely on it. Ryzen motherboard support is what is agreeably a "mess", not the processor itself, but at least it's functional on ASRock and select Gigabyte boards. As for "a fool to rely on it", not sure what you mean by that. The error correction itself is done by the hardware. Other than calling the initialization routines and providing logging/halt, the BIOS/UEFI isn't responsible for anything afaik. I'm well aware that this isn't the full grade of ECC support offered by higher-end Xeons and chipset combos, but it's better than nothing and it's affordable. Also, no offense, but I'm not going to rely on hardwarecanucks as an authority on this subject. All of the modern i3s and Pentiums support ECC, but you do need the server chipset instead of the cheap consumer stuff. Good news though - those "expensive server boards" are roughly the same price as say, an AM4 motherboard with an X370 chipset. The goal isn't ECC alone, at least not for me, the goal is an 8-core system with good single-threaded performance and ECC at a reasonable price. As far as I know, only Ryzen offers that. So for me, I'm looking at the possibility of getting a single system that can give me decent gaming performance, good development performance, ECC support, and more, all at a price that leaves me with money for other components.

eightysixfour 10y ago

Fortunately the new AMD Ryzen processors support ECC in the memory controller, unfortunately none of the boards seem to be testing/certifying it yet and the UEFI on a lot of the boards is a mess right now. Hopefully more consumer boards support/certify it since it is already there on the memory controller.

rlonstein 10y ago
The Asrock 370 boards officially support ECC, though I've read that various BIOS/UEFI versions don't: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/655e7v/all_asrock_am4_motherboards_support_ecc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/655e7v/all_asrock_am4_... People are reporting that the Asrock 350 boards do too. Gigabyte lists some ECC modules on the compatibility list but some report that it isn't working right.
- eightysixfour 10y ago
  Good to know, I'm waiting for all of these boards to UEFI stuff to stabilize before I go shopping. Seems a bit messy right now.

xorblurb 10y ago

If you use your computing in a way that makes you think about the potential interest of ECC, the price you are likely to target for a rig that fit your needs is extremely probably high enough to get some nice ECC...

awqrre 10y ago

Not only cost, it can also be harder to find a motherboard with ECC support and with all the components/inputs/outputs that you would want in a desktop computer.

mafro 10y ago
See sibling comment: I just picked up an ASRock C236 WSI
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

dogma1138 10y ago

There are cheap chipsets that support the entry level workstation ones from Intel you can get a motherboard for 65$ with ECC support you don't need to go to x99. I have a few home storage servers running on the low end Pentiums with ECC support on these.

dom0 10y ago

No chipset has supported ECC for quite a while: Flipping some configuration bits depending on the chipset used is purely an Intel money extraction-engine (Intel ME technology®©™). Server / workstation class boards normally all do support ECC, though, so no real issue in practice.

greenshackle2 10y ago

Some older AMD desktop chips support ECC. I built a home NAS from an old board and Phenom II 545 CPU I had lying around, fortuitously they happen to support ECC. DDR2 unregistered ECC ram was a bit of a pain to find though.

mafro 10y ago

I just last week bought an ASRock C236 WSI [1] for £170. 8GB of ECC RAM was £80. Granted that five years ago I needed to pay more than twice that amount - so I skipped the ECC :p [1] http://asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C236%20WSI#Specifications http://asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C236%2...