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This has nothing to do with building toilets. Its with education. The northern parts of India has very low literacy rate. High literacy + HDI states like Kerala

This has nothing to do with building toilets. Its with education. The northern parts of India has very low literacy rate. High literacy + HDI states like Kerala and Meghalaya was already clean. The dashboard of 2014 data proves that.

burkaman 9y ago
If you don't have a toilet, how does learning how to read help you not poop in the open?
- andrewvijay 9y ago
  how will they not poop in the open if they dont know pooping in the open leads to diseases?
- thowbit9 9y ago
  Because learning makes people less stupid in our part of the world.
  - burkaman 9y ago
    They literally don't have a toilet. Are they going to conjure one if they become smart enough? I understand there's an issue of people not using them once they have one, but step one is getting a toilet, and step two is educating people enough to want to use them.
    - sirclueless 9y ago
      I'm not so sure. Step 1 is making sure people want a toilet. If you give someone a toilet without their understanding its purpose, it is going to be neglected and considered pointless. If people want toilets, they can spend some free time to dig a big pit in a nearby yard, and it will be more sanitary than their current situation. Ultimately the two go hand in hand (toilets and education) but education without toilets is a problem that solves itself, while toilets without education is doomed to fail.
      - burkaman 9y ago
        Well, that's not the goal they're talking about: "There are two keys to achieving the targets of Clean India. One involves giving everyone access to a well-managed toilet, which means all the waste is treated (either on-site or in a treatment facility) to remove the pathogens that make people sick. It’s crucial to get the entire process right, from containing the waste in a toilet to collecting it, transporting it if necessary, and treating it. If one link in the chain fails, people still get sick." Anyway, the original comment here, "this has nothing to do with toilets", still doesn't make sense. High literacy states aren't clean because of education, they are clean and educated because they aren't poor. And we all agree that education and toilets go hand in hand, the article addresses this. All I was responding to was the idea that toilets are irrelevant, which is ridiculous.
    - klibertp 9y ago
      > They literally don't have a toilet. Are they going to conjure one if they become smart enough? Yes, exactly! Do you know what "smart" (or rather, appropriately educated, which higher literacy helps) people can do? They can build things. They can design systems more complex than the default "shit -> river" and execute them. And have them working for years. So yes, education is the problem. There are many DIY solutions people could use for themselves, on a small, local scale, if they had access to the information on how to do them. On a larger scale, say of a village, there are many infrastructural projects which could be done with just several people and a bit of knowledge. And everything above that is what governments specialize in. Giving people toilets will solve nothing. Even if they will use them for a bit, they will shortly turn into smelly shitholes, worse than outdoors by far. Instead, if they build the toilets themselves, there is a higher chance for them to maintain them. And they could be building their own toilets right now if not for illiteracy and lack of any education. I know there are other problems: economical situation, ingrained traditions and so on. But education is the only way of battling these problems as well.
      - burkaman 9y ago
        Can we all just agree that the approach they're taking seems to be working pretty well? Maybe it would be faster to educate everyone enough to build their own waste treatment and transport facilities. I think that's unlikely, but I guess we'll never know. I also think it would be difficult for a poor village to reach that level of education when people keep dying from waste-related diseases.

burkaman 9y ago

If you don't have a toilet, how does learning how to read help you not poop in the open?

andrewvijay 9y ago
how will they not poop in the open if they dont know pooping in the open leads to diseases?
thowbit9 9y ago
Because learning makes people less stupid in our part of the world.
- burkaman 9y ago
  They literally don't have a toilet. Are they going to conjure one if they become smart enough? I understand there's an issue of people not using them once they have one, but step one is getting a toilet, and step two is educating people enough to want to use them.
  - sirclueless 9y ago
    I'm not so sure. Step 1 is making sure people want a toilet. If you give someone a toilet without their understanding its purpose, it is going to be neglected and considered pointless. If people want toilets, they can spend some free time to dig a big pit in a nearby yard, and it will be more sanitary than their current situation. Ultimately the two go hand in hand (toilets and education) but education without toilets is a problem that solves itself, while toilets without education is doomed to fail.
    - burkaman 9y ago
      Well, that's not the goal they're talking about: "There are two keys to achieving the targets of Clean India. One involves giving everyone access to a well-managed toilet, which means all the waste is treated (either on-site or in a treatment facility) to remove the pathogens that make people sick. It’s crucial to get the entire process right, from containing the waste in a toilet to collecting it, transporting it if necessary, and treating it. If one link in the chain fails, people still get sick." Anyway, the original comment here, "this has nothing to do with toilets", still doesn't make sense. High literacy states aren't clean because of education, they are clean and educated because they aren't poor. And we all agree that education and toilets go hand in hand, the article addresses this. All I was responding to was the idea that toilets are irrelevant, which is ridiculous.
  - klibertp 9y ago
    > They literally don't have a toilet. Are they going to conjure one if they become smart enough? Yes, exactly! Do you know what "smart" (or rather, appropriately educated, which higher literacy helps) people can do? They can build things. They can design systems more complex than the default "shit -> river" and execute them. And have them working for years. So yes, education is the problem. There are many DIY solutions people could use for themselves, on a small, local scale, if they had access to the information on how to do them. On a larger scale, say of a village, there are many infrastructural projects which could be done with just several people and a bit of knowledge. And everything above that is what governments specialize in. Giving people toilets will solve nothing. Even if they will use them for a bit, they will shortly turn into smelly shitholes, worse than outdoors by far. Instead, if they build the toilets themselves, there is a higher chance for them to maintain them. And they could be building their own toilets right now if not for illiteracy and lack of any education. I know there are other problems: economical situation, ingrained traditions and so on. But education is the only way of battling these problems as well.
    - burkaman 9y ago
      Can we all just agree that the approach they're taking seems to be working pretty well? Maybe it would be faster to educate everyone enough to build their own waste treatment and transport facilities. I think that's unlikely, but I guess we'll never know. I also think it would be difficult for a poor village to reach that level of education when people keep dying from waste-related diseases.