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It is just such utter bullshit. "fight on terrorism". This is why I just don't do political news. No one reports on "huh fight on terrorism you say, can we shi

It is just such utter bullshit. "fight on terrorism". This is why I just don't do political news. No one reports on "huh fight on terrorism you say, can we shine some light on this claim? How useful has Twitter been to home security...". Why isn't that the story? I keep seeing stories build on just bullshit. The BBC will say "And what about housing Mrs May" and she will say "My government has created a white paper...... and councils are pissed about planning permission....." There is no answer. Over and over and over again. There is no point in the BBC reporter existing, no point in anyone's time being wasted. Just report nothing. Giving Governments access to public data has totally changed the dynamics of politics and the public is losing everything as a result. Government just fabricates an internal memo leak, waits 12 hours to get some data back on public opinion and then depending on that, will deny it, or will go ahead. Time and time again you see this. Our old Chancellor had no experience with finance, and during his term, it was found that he had dodged tax.... the day after he had given a statement that he was serious about tax evasion. Then, something about an old Veteran having cake was the main story that day across the whole media board. Forgotten. David Cameron said one evening after a COBRA meeting "Lets send dogs, and fences to Calais to stop the swarm of immigrants" - That got bad data results, so by 6am the next morning he adapted it to "We will take 10000 and send aid". By 9am, it was all forgotten. What is happening?? Where is reality?? Is no one responsible for anything any more?? Is this a result of the fragmentation of media outlets?? Like, I grew up with 4 channels. Now I don't want TV. Therefor there is no cross reference at all. You can say what you want and like 10% of the populace will hear it. That means government has never had it so easy.

7952 9y ago
An interesting approach is to just make government decisions algorithmic. Have people do a questionnaire during elections, and then optimise policy to maximise benefit to everyone. Try and make the optimisation process as open and explicit as possible.
- rwmj 9y ago
  A Demand-Revealing Referendum does this, and has a theoretical basis to it, apparently making it impossible to game the system: http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2005/01/voting_the_righ.html http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbli...
- DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
  "Have people do a questionnaire during elections" That's essentially what a ballot paper is, except the questionnaire is "Which political party have the Red-top or Black-top newspapers convinced you to vote for?" - and I think history demonstrates that a population cannot reliably vote for their own best-interests - so expecting them to produce reliable aggregate data through mass surveys - with which to make major decisions, is foolish.
- Sevores 9y ago
  But I don't know anything about economics, law, healthcare, biology, international relations, geopolitics, mathematics, history, agriculture, environmental protection, or much of anything for that matter so why should I decide?
  - self-diversity 9y ago
    Do you have a belief that politicians somehow do know these things well enough to make decisions across this spectrum on your behalf?
    - Sevores 9y ago
      In practice? No, of course not. Representational democracies are all flawed more or less depending on the country. I'm just not convinced direct democracy is the solution. Take the TPP for example. Is it a good idea? Is it bad? I haven't read it, and even if I did, I probably wouldn't know either way. Even if I could vote on it directly, I'd have to trust someone to explain it to me. And how would I know which explanation to trust? It seems that we're back to square one.
      - 7952 9y ago
        A questionnaire would give policy makers an insight into how you would feel about particular policies. It could be used to test the detail of something like TPP. Give an indication of how you would feel if you had studied the specifics.
  - hacker_9 9y ago
    This is what I often think. I like the idea of democracy, but in reality it just means people who don't know shit voting on things that are actually important. We don't just let anyone be a doctor, we make them do years of training first and get certified. In the same vein, maybe some people's votes should count more than others. Like if a bunch of economic experts say brexit is a bad idea, their votes have more sway...
  - ionised 9y ago
- Fifer82 9y ago
  I have long preferred this suggestion. I know it is a bit creepy, but ultimately given the parameters, there is one optimal result. You know things are frustrating when you prefer the machine to your representatives.
- self-diversity 9y ago
  it's important to note, (western) government decisions already are algorithmic. We simply aren't privy to many of the steps involved, and our ability to influence outcomes is limited by the elitism of representative democracy and the stifling regressive nature of bureaucracy. Edit: that isn't "regressive" as leftists confusingly redefine it, it's the dictionary definition. Might be important to note in a political comment.
switch007 9y ago
> What is happening?? Where is reality?? Is no one responsible for anything any more?? As a Brit, I can only echo your frustration. With the upcoming election...we're still pretending it matters.
- sandstrom 9y ago
  This is far from the only reason, but I think one reason is UK running a two-party system. The proponents (sitting parties) call it first-past-the-post, to make it sound like a fair system. But most people know that proportional voting systems are better. With a two party system there will always be debate, but it won't be as real as it is with proportional voting. The parties run no real risk of not getting elected. It also drives the two parties to each side of the 'spectrum', which isn't very constructive. Take a look at these lists[1][2], see any pattern in which countries are using which system? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation#List_of_countries_using_proportional_representation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation#Li... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#List_of_current_FPTP_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#Lis...
  - robhu 9y ago
    In 2011 the UK had a referendum on whether to change from FPTP to The Alternative Vote[0]. The people voted No overwhelmingly (68% No, 32% Yes). As with the Brexit referendum, those that lost complained afterward that the public was mislead, weren't given appropriate choices in the election etc. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vot...
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      > As with the Brexit referendum, those that lost complained afterward that the public was mislead And they weren't wrong. The problem unfortunately is that the public, as a whole, just doesn't care. They'd rather a comfortable, self-affirming, lie than an uncomfortable, intellectually challenging, truth.
Kenji 9y ago
>No one reports on "huh fight on terrorism you say, can we shine some light on this claim? How useful has Twitter been to home security...". Why isn't that the story? Because it's mainstream press. It engineers the very reaction and emotions you're experiencing now. It is designed to generate anger and outrage. Keep this in mind when you look at a piece of the media the next time. You cannot overlook it anymore. Omission of facts, outrageous titles, going on without getting to the point, it is all just psychological games.
k-mcgrady 9y ago
You're exaggerating a bit. Take the Cameron statement for example. He got ripped apart for that by the public, media, and other politicians and then was forced into adopting a better attitude to refugees.

7952 9y ago

An interesting approach is to just make government decisions algorithmic. Have people do a questionnaire during elections, and then optimise policy to maximise benefit to everyone. Try and make the optimisation process as open and explicit as possible.

rwmj 9y ago
A Demand-Revealing Referendum does this, and has a theoretical basis to it, apparently making it impossible to game the system: http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2005/01/voting_the_righ.html http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbli...
DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
"Have people do a questionnaire during elections" That's essentially what a ballot paper is, except the questionnaire is "Which political party have the Red-top or Black-top newspapers convinced you to vote for?" - and I think history demonstrates that a population cannot reliably vote for their own best-interests - so expecting them to produce reliable aggregate data through mass surveys - with which to make major decisions, is foolish.
Sevores 9y ago
But I don't know anything about economics, law, healthcare, biology, international relations, geopolitics, mathematics, history, agriculture, environmental protection, or much of anything for that matter so why should I decide?
- self-diversity 9y ago
  Do you have a belief that politicians somehow do know these things well enough to make decisions across this spectrum on your behalf?
  - Sevores 9y ago
    In practice? No, of course not. Representational democracies are all flawed more or less depending on the country. I'm just not convinced direct democracy is the solution. Take the TPP for example. Is it a good idea? Is it bad? I haven't read it, and even if I did, I probably wouldn't know either way. Even if I could vote on it directly, I'd have to trust someone to explain it to me. And how would I know which explanation to trust? It seems that we're back to square one.
    - 7952 9y ago
      A questionnaire would give policy makers an insight into how you would feel about particular policies. It could be used to test the detail of something like TPP. Give an indication of how you would feel if you had studied the specifics.
- hacker_9 9y ago
  This is what I often think. I like the idea of democracy, but in reality it just means people who don't know shit voting on things that are actually important. We don't just let anyone be a doctor, we make them do years of training first and get certified. In the same vein, maybe some people's votes should count more than others. Like if a bunch of economic experts say brexit is a bad idea, their votes have more sway...
- ionised 9y ago
Fifer82 9y ago
I have long preferred this suggestion. I know it is a bit creepy, but ultimately given the parameters, there is one optimal result. You know things are frustrating when you prefer the machine to your representatives.
self-diversity 9y ago
it's important to note, (western) government decisions already are algorithmic. We simply aren't privy to many of the steps involved, and our ability to influence outcomes is limited by the elitism of representative democracy and the stifling regressive nature of bureaucracy. Edit: that isn't "regressive" as leftists confusingly redefine it, it's the dictionary definition. Might be important to note in a political comment.

switch007 9y ago

> What is happening?? Where is reality?? Is no one responsible for anything any more?? As a Brit, I can only echo your frustration. With the upcoming election...we're still pretending it matters.

sandstrom 9y ago
This is far from the only reason, but I think one reason is UK running a two-party system. The proponents (sitting parties) call it first-past-the-post, to make it sound like a fair system. But most people know that proportional voting systems are better. With a two party system there will always be debate, but it won't be as real as it is with proportional voting. The parties run no real risk of not getting elected. It also drives the two parties to each side of the 'spectrum', which isn't very constructive. Take a look at these lists[1][2], see any pattern in which countries are using which system? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation#List_of_countries_using_proportional_representation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation#Li... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#List_of_current_FPTP_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting#Lis...
- robhu 9y ago
  In 2011 the UK had a referendum on whether to change from FPTP to The Alternative Vote[0]. The people voted No overwhelmingly (68% No, 32% Yes). As with the Brexit referendum, those that lost complained afterward that the public was mislead, weren't given appropriate choices in the election etc. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vot...
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    > As with the Brexit referendum, those that lost complained afterward that the public was mislead And they weren't wrong. The problem unfortunately is that the public, as a whole, just doesn't care. They'd rather a comfortable, self-affirming, lie than an uncomfortable, intellectually challenging, truth.

Kenji 9y ago

>No one reports on "huh fight on terrorism you say, can we shine some light on this claim? How useful has Twitter been to home security...". Why isn't that the story? Because it's mainstream press. It engineers the very reaction and emotions you're experiencing now. It is designed to generate anger and outrage. Keep this in mind when you look at a piece of the media the next time. You cannot overlook it anymore. Omission of facts, outrageous titles, going on without getting to the point, it is all just psychological games.

k-mcgrady 9y ago

You're exaggerating a bit. Take the Cameron statement for example. He got ripped apart for that by the public, media, and other politicians and then was forced into adopting a better attitude to refugees.