6 ms·

Everything in Kobble can be shared. Channels are there to organize tracks - your tracks and tracks from other users. Kobble can be used for much more than just

by kobble 9y ago

Everything in Kobble can be shared. Channels are there to organize tracks - your tracks and tracks from other users. Kobble can be used for much more than just note taking. It's meant to share meaningful content with other users. A track is like a project, and channels make it easy to share them.

Etheryte 9y ago
Why did you choose obscure names instead of something everyone could understand right away? To me, it seems "channels" are just "groups"/"categories"/"folders" and "tracks" are just "notes"? The fact that you need to explain it is a good indicator that it's unnecessarily complex.
- kobble 9y ago
  The model is very similar to other popular apps, like YouTube or Spotify. Instead of organizing songs or videos into channels, you organize tracks.
  - pvg 9y ago
    But these terms make some amount of intuitive sense on YouTube or Spotify. I don't have to know anything about YouTube or Spotify other than they deal with video clips and music to have a decent idea what a 'track', 'video', 'channel', 'playlist' might mean. These terms don't translate that well to 'notes', though.
    - kobble 9y ago
      Kobble can be used for much more than just notes. You organize 'tracks', which are more like projects. Tracks can contain notes, but also more meaningful content. Anything you can create with markdown (plus links, etc.)
      - grovegames 9y ago
        If they are just like projects, then call them projects. You're using music and video names for paper analog components. You're spending a lot of time defending the naming here. I'd recommend taking notes, and changing the naming. Also, add some mechanism where I can just hit a + button or something, and can start adding a note right away. I don't want to have to immediately organize all notes into a draconian structure. I just need to quickly record something for later use. I feel that should be a primary function of a notes app. Pretty is secondary to function, and the functionality of this is complex and obscure.
        ytjohn 9y ago
        In the (desktop) editor [quiver] that I use, all new note go into a notebook called "Inbox". I can start writing immediately and later move it a more appropriate notebook. [quiver]: http://happenapps.com/#quiver http://happenapps.com/#quiver Also, check out http://standardnotes.org/ http://standardnotes.org/
      - kobble 9y ago
        Fair enough. Naming is hard. Even 'project' has connotations.
      - ohyeshedid 9y ago
        So, uh, why are you introducing it as a notes app? You've got a good start to something; take two steps back, consume and digest the feedback you're getting, then use it to better your approach.
        kobble 9y ago
        Good point. There is only so much you can say in one line on HN. Marketing is tough. Any suggestions would be welcome.
        danenania 9y ago
        Trying to do many things is a classic early mistake. Instead of being a great app for one thing you become a mediocre app for lots of things. First make a notes app that people love. This will be harder than you think. Once you've done that and have enthusiastic users it will be much easier to move into other areas.
  - mikejmoffitt 9y ago
    YouTube users do not organize videos into channels. Channels are delivery mechanisms. Users organize them with Playlists, which is intuitive for the content.
    - kobble 9y ago
      Fair enough. We merged the channel/playlist concept.
      - ohyeshedid 9y ago
        ..but, but, it doesn't really apply to the expectations of a note app. You're a light text editor that cloud saves to Github; why are you trying to push a new vernacular that doesn't logically apply here? I don't manage projects with a notes app. I don't create tracks with a notes app. I don't create channels with a notes app. I don't create playlists with a notes app. It's pretty and functional; play to your strengths instead of trying to create new brand vernacular.
        kobble 9y ago
        We are honing our marketing message. Kobble is much more than just a notes app. It's also a content sharing platform. That's why some of the names were chosen. I think 'track' is causing the most confusion. It's basically a tree or folder structure.
      - killjoywashere 9y ago
        how about "notebook"?
      - devopsproject 9y ago
        folders and pages would have been better. model it after something in the real world before you appropriate words from another paradigm
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >The model is very similar to other popular apps, like YouTube or Spotify. Instead of organizing songs or videos into channels, you organize tracks. Spotify has Playlists and Songs. Both are domain-related concepts (the domain being music). YouTube has Videos, Playlists, and Channels, again all domain-related concepts, referring to historical domain terminology (Channel as in "your private TV channel", where you create content for others to view). So both services use terms apt to their use. Channels and Tracks are not concepts/terms related to note taking. Thus, the analogy to YouTube's and Spotify's use of their own terms is broken.
  - pjungwir 9y ago
    People don't seem to like your names, and perhaps the names do need more work, but I wanted to commend you for trying. Whenever I see something named "Group" I cringe a little, because it is so abstract and meaning-free. It is barely better than names like "Thing" and "Entity". So I appreciate your attempt to be more concrete and creative!
    - throwaway55523 9y ago
      This is such an important point. I'm living with a generic "group" feature in a SaaS app and it's a nightmare. It's been used by numerous clients for totally different things. These are the weeds that will choke your garden.
      - cyberferret 9y ago
        ...or they will be the very thing that frees up your users to use them in creative ways without feeling hemmed in to a particular mindset. We have the concept of 'tags' in our app, which are used by our users to delineate anything from company departments, social groups, locations, age bands etc. - basically anything they see fit. It saves us creating a mess of drop downs to try and cater for all edge cases, and they feel the freedom to think of them however they like.
    - kobble 9y ago
      I'm one of the devs on Kobble. There was debate about the names - it's not easy. 'channel' seems good, it's used by Slack also, and one of our channels is similar. 'track' however, is another story. It's really a tree or folder structure.
coldtea 9y ago
>Everything in Kobble can be shared. Channels are there to organize tracks - your tracks and tracks from other users. I first want to write -- directly, as a thought/task/etc comes to me, and only later to organize. And much later I'd care to share my note (if at all).
raarts 9y ago
> It's meant to share meaningful content with other users. A track is like a project, and channels make it easy to share them. I'm sorry. I just don't know what this means. Can you show some examples? EDIT: I tried it. Tried adding a URL, but just got errors. Filenames worked though. Now how do I share it with my mom? Does she need a github account to look at it? I don't immediately see the use of this. You may need to explain it better.
- kobble 9y ago
  Yes, you do need a GitHhub account.
mixrm0n 9y ago
In playing around with your app, I intuitively kept clicking the right arrow on the slides and completely missed the additional info on the ORGANIZING YOUR DATA slide on the first go around. Sometimes that the only shot you have to convey a message and explain your Item/Track/Channel system in further detail. I feel like that could use a "(Learn more below.)" or something like what's found on the first slide.
paulcole 9y ago
>Kobble can be used for much more than just note taking. You can see the confusion, given that you described it as a "notes app" in your submission title.

by kobble 9y ago

Etheryte 9y ago

Why did you choose obscure names instead of something everyone could understand right away? To me, it seems "channels" are just "groups"/"categories"/"folders" and "tracks" are just "notes"? The fact that you need to explain it is a good indicator that it's unnecessarily complex.

kobble 9y ago
The model is very similar to other popular apps, like YouTube or Spotify. Instead of organizing songs or videos into channels, you organize tracks.
- pvg 9y ago
  But these terms make some amount of intuitive sense on YouTube or Spotify. I don't have to know anything about YouTube or Spotify other than they deal with video clips and music to have a decent idea what a 'track', 'video', 'channel', 'playlist' might mean. These terms don't translate that well to 'notes', though.
  - kobble 9y ago
    Kobble can be used for much more than just notes. You organize 'tracks', which are more like projects. Tracks can contain notes, but also more meaningful content. Anything you can create with markdown (plus links, etc.)
    - grovegames 9y ago
      If they are just like projects, then call them projects. You're using music and video names for paper analog components. You're spending a lot of time defending the naming here. I'd recommend taking notes, and changing the naming. Also, add some mechanism where I can just hit a + button or something, and can start adding a note right away. I don't want to have to immediately organize all notes into a draconian structure. I just need to quickly record something for later use. I feel that should be a primary function of a notes app. Pretty is secondary to function, and the functionality of this is complex and obscure.
      - ytjohn 9y ago
        In the (desktop) editor [quiver] that I use, all new note go into a notebook called "Inbox". I can start writing immediately and later move it a more appropriate notebook. [quiver]: http://happenapps.com/#quiver http://happenapps.com/#quiver Also, check out http://standardnotes.org/ http://standardnotes.org/
    - kobble 9y ago
      Fair enough. Naming is hard. Even 'project' has connotations.
    - ohyeshedid 9y ago
      So, uh, why are you introducing it as a notes app? You've got a good start to something; take two steps back, consume and digest the feedback you're getting, then use it to better your approach.
      - kobble 9y ago
        Good point. There is only so much you can say in one line on HN. Marketing is tough. Any suggestions would be welcome.
        danenania 9y ago
        Trying to do many things is a classic early mistake. Instead of being a great app for one thing you become a mediocre app for lots of things. First make a notes app that people love. This will be harder than you think. Once you've done that and have enthusiastic users it will be much easier to move into other areas.
- mikejmoffitt 9y ago
  YouTube users do not organize videos into channels. Channels are delivery mechanisms. Users organize them with Playlists, which is intuitive for the content.
  - kobble 9y ago
    Fair enough. We merged the channel/playlist concept.
    - ohyeshedid 9y ago
      ..but, but, it doesn't really apply to the expectations of a note app. You're a light text editor that cloud saves to Github; why are you trying to push a new vernacular that doesn't logically apply here? I don't manage projects with a notes app. I don't create tracks with a notes app. I don't create channels with a notes app. I don't create playlists with a notes app. It's pretty and functional; play to your strengths instead of trying to create new brand vernacular.
      - kobble 9y ago
        We are honing our marketing message. Kobble is much more than just a notes app. It's also a content sharing platform. That's why some of the names were chosen. I think 'track' is causing the most confusion. It's basically a tree or folder structure.
    - killjoywashere 9y ago
      how about "notebook"?
    - devopsproject 9y ago
      folders and pages would have been better. model it after something in the real world before you appropriate words from another paradigm
- coldtea 9y ago
  >The model is very similar to other popular apps, like YouTube or Spotify. Instead of organizing songs or videos into channels, you organize tracks. Spotify has Playlists and Songs. Both are domain-related concepts (the domain being music). YouTube has Videos, Playlists, and Channels, again all domain-related concepts, referring to historical domain terminology (Channel as in "your private TV channel", where you create content for others to view). So both services use terms apt to their use. Channels and Tracks are not concepts/terms related to note taking. Thus, the analogy to YouTube's and Spotify's use of their own terms is broken.
- pjungwir 9y ago
  People don't seem to like your names, and perhaps the names do need more work, but I wanted to commend you for trying. Whenever I see something named "Group" I cringe a little, because it is so abstract and meaning-free. It is barely better than names like "Thing" and "Entity". So I appreciate your attempt to be more concrete and creative!
  - throwaway55523 9y ago
    This is such an important point. I'm living with a generic "group" feature in a SaaS app and it's a nightmare. It's been used by numerous clients for totally different things. These are the weeds that will choke your garden.
    - cyberferret 9y ago
      ...or they will be the very thing that frees up your users to use them in creative ways without feeling hemmed in to a particular mindset. We have the concept of 'tags' in our app, which are used by our users to delineate anything from company departments, social groups, locations, age bands etc. - basically anything they see fit. It saves us creating a mess of drop downs to try and cater for all edge cases, and they feel the freedom to think of them however they like.
  - kobble 9y ago
    I'm one of the devs on Kobble. There was debate about the names - it's not easy. 'channel' seems good, it's used by Slack also, and one of our channels is similar. 'track' however, is another story. It's really a tree or folder structure.

coldtea 9y ago

>Everything in Kobble can be shared. Channels are there to organize tracks - your tracks and tracks from other users. I first want to write -- directly, as a thought/task/etc comes to me, and only later to organize. And much later I'd care to share my note (if at all).

raarts 9y ago

> It's meant to share meaningful content with other users. A track is like a project, and channels make it easy to share them. I'm sorry. I just don't know what this means. Can you show some examples? EDIT: I tried it. Tried adding a URL, but just got errors. Filenames worked though. Now how do I share it with my mom? Does she need a github account to look at it? I don't immediately see the use of this. You may need to explain it better.

kobble 9y ago
Yes, you do need a GitHhub account.

mixrm0n 9y ago

In playing around with your app, I intuitively kept clicking the right arrow on the slides and completely missed the additional info on the ORGANIZING YOUR DATA slide on the first go around. Sometimes that the only shot you have to convey a message and explain your Item/Track/Channel system in further detail. I feel like that could use a "(Learn more below.)" or something like what's found on the first slide.

paulcole 9y ago

>Kobble can be used for much more than just note taking. You can see the confusion, given that you described it as a "notes app" in your submission title.