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The redpill community is not an embarrassment because it's unacceptable in principle that some men prefer submissive women or some women prefer to be submissive
by gdulli 10y ago
The redpill community is not an embarrassment because it's unacceptable in principle that some men prefer submissive women or some women prefer to be submissive. People can want what they want and it's not my business.
What makes redpill an embarrassment is the tone, the stuff like pretending than men are the real victims in our society, the worldview that partitions men into alphas and betas. The need to see men vs. women as a zero sum game, or fundamentally adversarial.
Stuff like this from the glossary:
> CC, or Cock Carousel – The period of time in a woman's life where she successfully exploits her sexual value and maximizes her hypergamous tendencies by having sex with as many alphas as possible. Usually happens between ages 18 - 27. Often ends when the woman hits the wall.
> Feminism – ”A doctrine built on the pre-supposition of victimhood of women by men as a foundation of female identity.
This view of the world says more about the men than the women they're trying to describe. It's not that there isn't any reality to any of these concepts. But it's poisonous to view the world with cynicism and reduction to these concepts as the ones that primarily motivate people. Rather than seeing people as complex individuals who struggle with these concepts but work towards overcoming them, or aren't primarily defined by them.
It's like how the_donald is the cringiest bullshit, but not because I tend to disagree with Republican policy positions. I don't even necessarily disagree with all of them.
And I'll definitely say that liberals sometimes have extreme views and tactics worthy of ridicule as well. It can be easier for me to find common ground with a Republican who rejects Trump's bullshit than some extremist liberals.
- thanatropism 10y agoWait, you're saying these things are true but it's poisonous to say so? Or, more charitatively, that reality is composed of a large spectrum of true things and it's poisonous to emphasize the kind of true things they're saying? (Or, to comic effect, that a three-valued logic of true/false/cringe is needed to evaluate social theories like that?) --- Here's how I feel about those "hatefacts". First, I don't know that they're true - ages 18-27, really? I know to some extent that Bono from U2 might be able to just waltz in and steal or have sex with my girlfriend. But here's the thing: I don't need to care. I firmly believe in the stoic distinction between stuff that's "up to me" (and I can fight for) and stuff that's not. I know I'm not about to become the protagonist of "Magic Mike 3" or some such optimally attractive man. I also know I have my own kind of charm which I can develop and let the dice roll. It seems to me that the Red Pill stuff is structured exactly like class (and generalized "oppression") resentment. There are extraordinarily fine things and experiences I cannot afford in my current station in life and there are extraordinarily attractive women in the world (I saw a bunch today) that I will probably never enjoy as a mate. (Red Pill would likely say that if I became wealthy I'd get the girls, but doesn't that defeat the point?) But if you're going to be happy at all in life you need to do what you can do. So Red Pill literature reads to me a lot like gender wage gap or black-lives-matter literature. It comes out of a place of disconnect between actions (what I can do) and consequences (what the world gives me) that's actually real. Of course the world's not fair. But it's sometimes painful, isn't it?
- tptacek 10y agoNo, neither of those were what they were saying.
- thanatropism 10y agogdulli (the grandparent) did say > It's not that there isn't any reality to any of these concepts. So he's not saying they're false. I think I'd be more comfortable with the assertion (on vague authority I'd be willing to believe) that Red Pill ideology is false and that's why we're supposed to oppose it.
- gdulli 10y agoSure, there are women who'd leave their partner for a rock star because of their status, and men who'd leave their partner because someone with better looks came along. It's true there are a lot of shitty people, but there are also a lot of good people. Extrapolating the behavior of the shitty people to the whole gender and forming a worldview around shallowness as a primary motivation of people in general is self-defeating. You're just embracing and becoming the shittiness you see in the world. A shitty game only has the power we choose to give it. It's like how you can't point to a Trump voter and assume they're a terrible person just because Trump is a terrible person. Their motivations for voting for him could be complex and conflicted. If I was to treat all Trump voters according to the behavior of the worst of them, I'd never be able to have respect for any of them. That's not a sustainable way to view a large segment of people.