5 ms·

I'm not a psychologist but I have observed this kind of syndrome a couple times and I think it's usually more like a performance anxiety. You take the big fis

I'm not a psychologist but I have observed this kind of syndrome a couple times and I think it's usually more like a performance anxiety. You take the big fish out of the little pond and all the sudden he's a small fish in a big pond and it's a culture shock. The time lines, the compromises and the urgency are all different at a startup. You are used to being the smartest guy in the room at a mid sized or big place, you go to a small startup that got money because the founders are exceptional and they've staffed up with some exceptional people and they are all running like hell, you might look or feel kind of ordinary and that's a tough pill to swallow. It's especially difficult if you've never felt it before, all the sudden you're "failing" Combine that with a family that thinks the world of you because "you're the best" and I expect it's worse. Or at least that is how I've tried to understand it. There are clearly other issues when it results in suicide though. Again, I'm no doctor, but I try to give them an interview problem they can't solve, I think it's good if they say "I don't know how" or "I can't do that yet" Another symptom I've observed, when someone is in that space, they often try to do more. Rather than botching one feature, maybe they'll rush and half-ass three or four to try and "make up" for earlier shortcomings. That usually creates a rift with the team that then starts to think less of them, the new guy is a bull in a China shop. As for management, they share some of it. Uber seems like a broken place in a lot of ways. They should know it takes time to ramp up. Also success begets success, I take things off a new employee's plate when this happens. Make it small enough for them to create a little success and then build on it. In SV there is a large talent pool and a belief that the "right person" is around there somewhere so building long term success might not be as important to some companies.

neilk 9y ago
I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen it and even been that guy. We should be clear, though, that the "small fish in a big pond" scenario isn't exactly what happened to Joseph Thomas. According to the article he had already had a successful run at LinkedIn and had an offer on the table from Apple. Sometimes even brilliant people just aren't a match, no matter what. But a mismatch is a mutual responsibility, and shouldn't be a brutalizing experience. The fault there lies with Uber.
- pm90 9y ago
  I'm no fan of Uber but I think this is putting too much blame on them. If you see a toxic culture, leave. I know there are other factors, psychological things that keep you from making rational decisions etc. But lets please be clear: the world is actually a pretty brutal place for most of humanity. Most humans are stuck in a poverty loop they can't ever hope to escape. And we have a story of people who can't just say: "enough! I'm outta here?". I'm certainly not putting the blame on Joseph, he seems to have suffered a lot despite having objectively been a good engineer. But lets not forget that we're all (mostly) at-will employees, there is nothing stopping us from getting up and leaving just right now. Personal responsibility is really important. Perhaps we should be teaching some of this stuff in high school? I don't know what the solution is IMO. I've personally been in toxic situations as well. As soon as I realized my happiness delta was negative, I immediately started looking at other positions and switched.
  - throwaway8800 9y ago
    > If you see a toxic culture, leave. This is easier said than done when your own self-worth and ability to see your own value is diminished due to stress, when you have a mortgage and financial obligations and a family to take care of. Not many people are financially independent enough to just quit a job the moment they feel it's become "toxic".
    - pm90 9y ago
      > This is easier said than done when your own self-worth and ability to see your own value is diminished due to stress, when you have a mortgage and financial obligations and a family to take care of. Not many people are financially independent enough to just quit a job the moment they feel it's become "toxic". Well, I never said it was easy. To elaborate more, it is incredibly important to have contingency plans in place, to prevent exactly this sort of situation from happening. One of the first things I did when I started working professionally was to have enough liquidity to last at least a year, which I was able to do only after 3 years of saving aggressively. Which really came in handy after I was laid off a job and had to spend 3 months looking for another one. I really don't understand how one can get married, have kids and not have such plans in place? IMO it seems kinda irresponsible, especially if one is working in tech, where saving money is much easier than in other professions.
CIPHERSTONE 9y ago
It's more like you are the only fish is a small pond that they want to put an ocean liner into. Startups by their nature seem to rarely have the correct amount of resources for projects/sprints/etc. Anytime you try to cram five gallons of shit into a one gallon bucket, there are going to be repercussions. Some people thrive on that environment, others like more traditional, better staffed and funded environments. Each to their own I guess. I feel sorry for this guy and his family, no job is worth that.

neilk 9y ago

I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen it and even been that guy. We should be clear, though, that the "small fish in a big pond" scenario isn't exactly what happened to Joseph Thomas. According to the article he had already had a successful run at LinkedIn and had an offer on the table from Apple. Sometimes even brilliant people just aren't a match, no matter what. But a mismatch is a mutual responsibility, and shouldn't be a brutalizing experience. The fault there lies with Uber.

pm90 9y ago
I'm no fan of Uber but I think this is putting too much blame on them. If you see a toxic culture, leave. I know there are other factors, psychological things that keep you from making rational decisions etc. But lets please be clear: the world is actually a pretty brutal place for most of humanity. Most humans are stuck in a poverty loop they can't ever hope to escape. And we have a story of people who can't just say: "enough! I'm outta here?". I'm certainly not putting the blame on Joseph, he seems to have suffered a lot despite having objectively been a good engineer. But lets not forget that we're all (mostly) at-will employees, there is nothing stopping us from getting up and leaving just right now. Personal responsibility is really important. Perhaps we should be teaching some of this stuff in high school? I don't know what the solution is IMO. I've personally been in toxic situations as well. As soon as I realized my happiness delta was negative, I immediately started looking at other positions and switched.
- throwaway8800 9y ago
  > If you see a toxic culture, leave. This is easier said than done when your own self-worth and ability to see your own value is diminished due to stress, when you have a mortgage and financial obligations and a family to take care of. Not many people are financially independent enough to just quit a job the moment they feel it's become "toxic".
  - pm90 9y ago
    > This is easier said than done when your own self-worth and ability to see your own value is diminished due to stress, when you have a mortgage and financial obligations and a family to take care of. Not many people are financially independent enough to just quit a job the moment they feel it's become "toxic". Well, I never said it was easy. To elaborate more, it is incredibly important to have contingency plans in place, to prevent exactly this sort of situation from happening. One of the first things I did when I started working professionally was to have enough liquidity to last at least a year, which I was able to do only after 3 years of saving aggressively. Which really came in handy after I was laid off a job and had to spend 3 months looking for another one. I really don't understand how one can get married, have kids and not have such plans in place? IMO it seems kinda irresponsible, especially if one is working in tech, where saving money is much easier than in other professions.

CIPHERSTONE 9y ago

It's more like you are the only fish is a small pond that they want to put an ocean liner into. Startups by their nature seem to rarely have the correct amount of resources for projects/sprints/etc. Anytime you try to cram five gallons of shit into a one gallon bucket, there are going to be repercussions. Some people thrive on that environment, others like more traditional, better staffed and funded environments. Each to their own I guess. I feel sorry for this guy and his family, no job is worth that.