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BenjaminTood, thank you for this guide. It definitively paints a picture where society is heading. Naturally comes the question: Where does the guide g

BenjaminTood, thank you for this guide. It definitively paints a picture where society is heading. Naturally comes the question: Where does the guide guide you to? To what person does it guide you? Everything about this reminded me of the movie The Ticket, where the previously truly blind main character becomes blinded by the superficial in his pursuit of "The Successful Life". What world is this, in which every human interaction happens in background of some kind of utility function? In the end we all want to be happy, right? Numerous studies find, that 'the most salient characteristics shared by students who were very happy and showed the fewest signs of depression were "their strong ties to friends and family and commitment to spending time with them." ("The New Science of Happiness," Claudia Wallis, Time Magazine, Jan. 09, 2005).' [1] I'm very sorry to say this: sadly enough, it's not how good you perform, but where you are born, what has the biggest impact on your career. [2] From the About page of 80000hours: Our aim is to help as many people as possible lead high-impact careers. We do this by providing career advice for talented young people who want to have a social impact. Over a third of young graduates want to make a difference with their careers,1 but they have little idea what to do Maybe that's the main problem here? "[Having] little idea what to do". Being raised as sheep doesn't really teach you, how to stand for your own ideals. And that's why I'm proud of HN. Because we are! Sources: [1]: http://www.pursuit-of-happiness.org/science-of-happiness/communicating/ http://www.pursuit-of-happiness.org/science-of-happiness/com... [2]: In Germany 85% of all chairmen are emerging from the upper 3.5% (income-wise) families [3]. This is especially remarkable as it's only a very thin slice, which makes up basically everybody in these positions. These upper 3.5% want you to become as high-performing as possible. Guess, why? [3]: https://www.amazon.de/Gestatten-Elite-Spuren-M%C3%A4chtigen-morgen/dp/345550051X https://www.amazon.de/Gestatten-Elite-Spuren-M%C3%A4chtigen-...

jonathanstrange 9y ago
You nailed it. The article contains a lot of good advice but unfortunately seems to be based on the incorrect assumption that you are either successful in your job or unsuccessful in your job (a false dichotomy), or that you always need to strife to be more and more successful. Maybe they should read Heinrich Böll's Anekdote zur Senkung der Arbeitsmoral - Anecdote Concerning the Lowering of Productivity.
- kavalg 9y ago
  The anecdote was really insightful. Would you elaborate a bit more on the false dichotomy? It looks to me that it is not a that much about a false dichotomy, but more about who is the one that decides if you are successful enough - you or somebody else.
  - jonathanstrange 9y ago
    Success comes to a degree. You don't need to be among the top x percent to be a productive member of society or have a fulfilled life, and by definition only x percent people can be in this group anyway. In most professions, being moderately successful is more than enough, and if a company wants you to constantly surpass expectation and grow, there is maybe more wrong with that company than with yourself. That was all my point, nothing big, in a sense it's a truism.
- rawland 9y ago
  Didn't read this one for quite a while. Thank you, jonathanstrange. :-) Pasting it here from wikipedia [0]: The story is set in an unnamed harbor on the west coast of Europe.[1] A smartly-dressed enterprising tourist is taking photographs when he notices a shabbily dressed local fisherman taking a nap in his fishing boat. The tourist is disappointed with the fisherman's apparently lazy attitude towards his work, so he approaches the fisherman and asks him why he is lying around instead of catching fish. The fisherman explains that he went fishing in the morning, and the small catch would be sufficient for the next two days. The tourist tells him that if he goes out to catch fish multiple times a day, he would be able to buy a motor in less than a year, a second boat in less than two years, and so on. The tourist further explains that one day, the fisherman could even build a small cold storage plant, later a pickling factory, fly around in a helicopter, build a fish restaurant, and export lobster directly to Paris without a middleman. The nonchalant fisherman asks, "Then what?" The tourist enthusiastically continues, "Then, without a care in the world, you could sit here in the harbor, doze in the sun, and look at the glorious sea." "But I'm already doing that", says the fisherman. The enlightened tourist walks away pensively, with no trace of pity for the fisherman, only a little envy. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekdote_zur_Senkung_der_Arbeitsmoral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekdote_zur_Senkung_der_Arbei...
deleted 9y ago
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TeMPOraL 9y ago
> What world is this, in which every human interaction happens in background of some kind of utility function? Nobody tells anyone to live their lives by an explicit utility function (if you could even specify one in full, you'd be half-way to solving Friendly AI). But utilitarianism is an useful framework for decisionmaking in many contexts, especially as an alternative to going by your gut, and especially in situations to which your gut is not used. > In the end we all want to be happy, right? Right, but if this is most important goal of one's life, then 80000hours is not a guide for them. This is a guide for people who want to have positive impact on the world. There are better and easier ways for improving personal happiness. For example, even the Bible suggests alcohol as useful in achieving a happy (if not impactful) life. > Maybe that's the main problem here? "[Having] little idea what to do". Being raised as sheep doesn't really teach you, how to stand for your own ideals. The context implies this talks about people who know they want to make a meaningful social impact, but don't know how. In other articles, 80000hours provides advice for figuring out that "how". -- TL;DR: 80000hours don't publish articles aimed at everyone, but at those who want to make a positive impact on the world with their career.

jonathanstrange 9y ago

You nailed it. The article contains a lot of good advice but unfortunately seems to be based on the incorrect assumption that you are either successful in your job or unsuccessful in your job (a false dichotomy), or that you always need to strife to be more and more successful. Maybe they should read Heinrich Böll's Anekdote zur Senkung der Arbeitsmoral - Anecdote Concerning the Lowering of Productivity.

kavalg 9y ago
The anecdote was really insightful. Would you elaborate a bit more on the false dichotomy? It looks to me that it is not a that much about a false dichotomy, but more about who is the one that decides if you are successful enough - you or somebody else.
- jonathanstrange 9y ago
  Success comes to a degree. You don't need to be among the top x percent to be a productive member of society or have a fulfilled life, and by definition only x percent people can be in this group anyway. In most professions, being moderately successful is more than enough, and if a company wants you to constantly surpass expectation and grow, there is maybe more wrong with that company than with yourself. That was all my point, nothing big, in a sense it's a truism.
rawland 9y ago
Didn't read this one for quite a while. Thank you, jonathanstrange. :-) Pasting it here from wikipedia [0]: The story is set in an unnamed harbor on the west coast of Europe.[1] A smartly-dressed enterprising tourist is taking photographs when he notices a shabbily dressed local fisherman taking a nap in his fishing boat. The tourist is disappointed with the fisherman's apparently lazy attitude towards his work, so he approaches the fisherman and asks him why he is lying around instead of catching fish. The fisherman explains that he went fishing in the morning, and the small catch would be sufficient for the next two days. The tourist tells him that if he goes out to catch fish multiple times a day, he would be able to buy a motor in less than a year, a second boat in less than two years, and so on. The tourist further explains that one day, the fisherman could even build a small cold storage plant, later a pickling factory, fly around in a helicopter, build a fish restaurant, and export lobster directly to Paris without a middleman. The nonchalant fisherman asks, "Then what?" The tourist enthusiastically continues, "Then, without a care in the world, you could sit here in the harbor, doze in the sun, and look at the glorious sea." "But I'm already doing that", says the fisherman. The enlightened tourist walks away pensively, with no trace of pity for the fisherman, only a little envy. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekdote_zur_Senkung_der_Arbeitsmoral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekdote_zur_Senkung_der_Arbei...

deleted 9y ago

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TeMPOraL 9y ago

> What world is this, in which every human interaction happens in background of some kind of utility function? Nobody tells anyone to live their lives by an explicit utility function (if you could even specify one in full, you'd be half-way to solving Friendly AI). But utilitarianism is an useful framework for decisionmaking in many contexts, especially as an alternative to going by your gut, and especially in situations to which your gut is not used. > In the end we all want to be happy, right? Right, but if this is most important goal of one's life, then 80000hours is not a guide for them. This is a guide for people who want to have positive impact on the world. There are better and easier ways for improving personal happiness. For example, even the Bible suggests alcohol as useful in achieving a happy (if not impactful) life. > Maybe that's the main problem here? "[Having] little idea what to do". Being raised as sheep doesn't really teach you, how to stand for your own ideals. The context implies this talks about people who know they want to make a meaningful social impact, but don't know how. In other articles, 80000hours provides advice for figuring out that "how". -- TL;DR: 80000hours don't publish articles aimed at everyone, but at those who want to make a positive impact on the world with their career.