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I'll probably get downvoted for this, but I'm curious when the "Apple is a dictatorship and I'm taking my toys and going home" blog posts will stop making it to

I'll probably get downvoted for this, but I'm curious when the "Apple is a dictatorship and I'm taking my toys and going home" blog posts will stop making it to the top of HN. Isn't this storyline getting a little monotonous?

abyssknight 16y ago
I think the key thing to remember with these posts is that you never hear about when an app does get approved. From what I understand, and Steve Jobs stated at WWDC, it is very unusual to have an application rejected. Most times, its a simple fix too. On top of that, there's HTML 5 based applications, which don't require approval. Half of these rejected applications could have been written in straight HTML and no one would have bothered them about an approval process.
- mcav 16y ago
  HTML5 apps are inferior due to lack of an iTunes-integrated payment system for them.
  - axod 16y ago
    Only if you rely on payment directly from customer as your business model.
  - cmelbye 16y ago
    That's a separate problem, but there are easy payment systems to integrate with you app if you need to charge people,
- WiseWeasel 16y ago
  HTML5 apps are not a valid replacement for native development. There are many device capabilities that are only accessible through the native development SDK, such as anything requiring access to various hardware, or that needs to integrate with data on the phone. Even if half the rejected applications could be written in HTML5, that still leaves the other half. I'm sorry, but that's not an acceptable solution. I should be the one to determine whether an app can run on my device, not my vendor.
dhimes 16y ago
I disagree (but that's not a reason to downvote in my book--writing something interesting enough to make me want to comment usually gets an automatic upvote). Giving legitimate groups a legitimate voice on this particular forum is a way to keep some leverage against the Apples and Googles who feel like they can do whatever they want with your apps/accounts and don't have to answer to anybody. An isolated blog about a developer in Italy (even a famous one) is not likely to be effective-- until it gets picked up here. Then you can be damn sure that important players are going to see it, and this can pressure a company to clearly explain itself or effect a remedy. I understand this song is getting to be old, but we still need them on the site (and, if worthy, upvoted).
- raganwald 16y ago
  Is the purpose of Hacker News to "Act as a PR tool for forcing corporations to do what we want rather than doing what they feel is in their self interest?" If so, I'm ready to write a blog post whining about how HN doesn't do what I want and why I'm going to stop participating. I read HN to find articles that "Gratify my intellectual curiosity." That especially includes "Posts about new and interesting phenomena." Proprietary platform vendors doing stuff that is not in the best interests of one, a few, or even many of their symbiotic developers is not a new and interesting phenomenon, and I find nothing in this post that adds value to any discussion about the relative risks and rewards of sharecropping in the iOS ecosystem. Nor do I consider "data" to be the plural of "anecdote." Seeing one, a few, or many such posts doesn't add value to a decision I might make about developing for iOS. The dynamics of business are such that people are far more likely to whine about how unfair Apple is than to publish how much money they're making. Likewise, a whine is far more likely to attract votes on a site like HN because of the emotional dynamics of link bait. I have nothing against the post or the fact that it may be interesting to many people on this site. But that doesn't make it Hacker News as described in the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html That being said... Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did. Mea Culpa.
mechanical_fish 16y ago
The blog posts will stop rising once a sufficient number of people figure out that trolling the App Store reviewers and getting banned, even temporarily, is a great way to generate free publicity. Then the ratio of people crying wolf to legit complaints will grow and grow until we all get bored to death.
jokermatt999 16y ago
>I'll probably get downvoted for this, Can we please not use that phrase here? I hate it over at reddit, and I hate seeing it here even more. Just state your opinion, regardless of whether or not you feel like you'll be upvoted.
- wildmXranat 16y ago
  Karma value over substance is a bitch of a hurdle to get over. Still, you are correct.
- mattmaroon 16y ago
  It's a bit of reverse-psychology that is meant to keep you from getting downvoted. More accurate would be "please don't downvote me for this" but that would also probably be less effective. I'm pretty sure that that phrase actually does serve its intended purpose. I have nothing but a hunch and anecdotes to base that on though.
- yankeeracer73 16y ago
  Since we aren't all standing in a room having a real conversation, the only way I can tell if people are going to agree or disagree with me is an up or down vote. "I'll probably get downvoted for this" is another way of saying "the predominant opinion here is x but i'm going to state y." My intent wasn't purposely to avoid downvotes (or get more upvotes,) but point taken.
  - anamax 16y ago
    > Since we aren't all standing in a room having a real conversation, the only way I can tell if people are going to agree or disagree with me is an up or down vote. Apart from some tense confusion, yes. > I'll probably get downvoted for this" is another way of saying "the predominant opinion here is x but i'm going to state y." Yes, that is another way to say that. The point is that saying that gets annoying. If you're about to say something for which you feel the need to apologize, don't say it. Double that if the apology is a pose. (No, it's not polite or "civil".) Respect the readers.
jhancock 16y ago
No reason to downvote you as its an opportunity for education. Not just for you but for almost everyone on both sides of this debate distracted and not focused on the core problem. The root of this matter is the FCC rules which prohibit tampering with devices. The only devices the FCC seems to allow unlocking are "dumbphones". The smart stuff gets special protection by laws that were originally put in place for DRM and national security. The U.S. is building economies around government sponsored anti-competitive measures. Apple along with just about every device manufacturer and cellular carrier petitions the FCC to keep these regulations in place. A good chunk of Apple's current market value assumes the government will keep these rules in place. Without these rules, Apple's developer agreements and cut of app and ad revenue would be normalized by competition; real free-market competition. The longer we wait to address this core problem, the worse it gets and the harder it is to move away from. Can you imagine the calls a senator or FCC insider will get when this problem finally is forced on their agenda? The lobbyist for state teachers' unions will call to let them know that removing the protections may cause Apple shares to drop 35% causing the union's pension fund to lose $20 million overnight causing a cut in insurance supplements supplied by the union. Removing the protections would have incalculable network effects.
- neurotech1 16y ago
  From what I understand, most smart phones have a baseband processor, separate from the application processor. The FCC should allow application hacking eg. Android, but still restrict the baseband processor code as designed.

abyssknight 16y ago

I think the key thing to remember with these posts is that you never hear about when an app does get approved. From what I understand, and Steve Jobs stated at WWDC, it is very unusual to have an application rejected. Most times, its a simple fix too. On top of that, there's HTML 5 based applications, which don't require approval. Half of these rejected applications could have been written in straight HTML and no one would have bothered them about an approval process.

mcav 16y ago
HTML5 apps are inferior due to lack of an iTunes-integrated payment system for them.
- axod 16y ago
  Only if you rely on payment directly from customer as your business model.
- cmelbye 16y ago
  That's a separate problem, but there are easy payment systems to integrate with you app if you need to charge people,
WiseWeasel 16y ago
HTML5 apps are not a valid replacement for native development. There are many device capabilities that are only accessible through the native development SDK, such as anything requiring access to various hardware, or that needs to integrate with data on the phone. Even if half the rejected applications could be written in HTML5, that still leaves the other half. I'm sorry, but that's not an acceptable solution. I should be the one to determine whether an app can run on my device, not my vendor.

dhimes 16y ago

I disagree (but that's not a reason to downvote in my book--writing something interesting enough to make me want to comment usually gets an automatic upvote). Giving legitimate groups a legitimate voice on this particular forum is a way to keep some leverage against the Apples and Googles who feel like they can do whatever they want with your apps/accounts and don't have to answer to anybody. An isolated blog about a developer in Italy (even a famous one) is not likely to be effective-- until it gets picked up here. Then you can be damn sure that important players are going to see it, and this can pressure a company to clearly explain itself or effect a remedy. I understand this song is getting to be old, but we still need them on the site (and, if worthy, upvoted).

raganwald 16y ago
Is the purpose of Hacker News to "Act as a PR tool for forcing corporations to do what we want rather than doing what they feel is in their self interest?" If so, I'm ready to write a blog post whining about how HN doesn't do what I want and why I'm going to stop participating. I read HN to find articles that "Gratify my intellectual curiosity." That especially includes "Posts about new and interesting phenomena." Proprietary platform vendors doing stuff that is not in the best interests of one, a few, or even many of their symbiotic developers is not a new and interesting phenomenon, and I find nothing in this post that adds value to any discussion about the relative risks and rewards of sharecropping in the iOS ecosystem. Nor do I consider "data" to be the plural of "anecdote." Seeing one, a few, or many such posts doesn't add value to a decision I might make about developing for iOS. The dynamics of business are such that people are far more likely to whine about how unfair Apple is than to publish how much money they're making. Likewise, a whine is far more likely to attract votes on a site like HN because of the emotional dynamics of link bait. I have nothing against the post or the fact that it may be interesting to many people on this site. But that doesn't make it Hacker News as described in the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html That being said... Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did. Mea Culpa.

mechanical_fish 16y ago

The blog posts will stop rising once a sufficient number of people figure out that trolling the App Store reviewers and getting banned, even temporarily, is a great way to generate free publicity. Then the ratio of people crying wolf to legit complaints will grow and grow until we all get bored to death.

jokermatt999 16y ago

>I'll probably get downvoted for this, Can we please not use that phrase here? I hate it over at reddit, and I hate seeing it here even more. Just state your opinion, regardless of whether or not you feel like you'll be upvoted.

wildmXranat 16y ago
Karma value over substance is a bitch of a hurdle to get over. Still, you are correct.
mattmaroon 16y ago
It's a bit of reverse-psychology that is meant to keep you from getting downvoted. More accurate would be "please don't downvote me for this" but that would also probably be less effective. I'm pretty sure that that phrase actually does serve its intended purpose. I have nothing but a hunch and anecdotes to base that on though.
yankeeracer73 16y ago
Since we aren't all standing in a room having a real conversation, the only way I can tell if people are going to agree or disagree with me is an up or down vote. "I'll probably get downvoted for this" is another way of saying "the predominant opinion here is x but i'm going to state y." My intent wasn't purposely to avoid downvotes (or get more upvotes,) but point taken.
- anamax 16y ago
  > Since we aren't all standing in a room having a real conversation, the only way I can tell if people are going to agree or disagree with me is an up or down vote. Apart from some tense confusion, yes. > I'll probably get downvoted for this" is another way of saying "the predominant opinion here is x but i'm going to state y." Yes, that is another way to say that. The point is that saying that gets annoying. If you're about to say something for which you feel the need to apologize, don't say it. Double that if the apology is a pose. (No, it's not polite or "civil".) Respect the readers.

jhancock 16y ago

No reason to downvote you as its an opportunity for education. Not just for you but for almost everyone on both sides of this debate distracted and not focused on the core problem. The root of this matter is the FCC rules which prohibit tampering with devices. The only devices the FCC seems to allow unlocking are "dumbphones". The smart stuff gets special protection by laws that were originally put in place for DRM and national security. The U.S. is building economies around government sponsored anti-competitive measures. Apple along with just about every device manufacturer and cellular carrier petitions the FCC to keep these regulations in place. A good chunk of Apple's current market value assumes the government will keep these rules in place. Without these rules, Apple's developer agreements and cut of app and ad revenue would be normalized by competition; real free-market competition. The longer we wait to address this core problem, the worse it gets and the harder it is to move away from. Can you imagine the calls a senator or FCC insider will get when this problem finally is forced on their agenda? The lobbyist for state teachers' unions will call to let them know that removing the protections may cause Apple shares to drop 35% causing the union's pension fund to lose $20 million overnight causing a cut in insurance supplements supplied by the union. Removing the protections would have incalculable network effects.

neurotech1 16y ago
From what I understand, most smart phones have a baseband processor, separate from the application processor. The FCC should allow application hacking eg. Android, but still restrict the baseband processor code as designed.