4 ms·

Agreed. There are two problems that compound on each other but are somewhat distinct 1. Excessive models. They make this look work than it is by essentially

Agreed. There are two problems that compound on each other but are somewhat distinct 1. Excessive models. They make this look work than it is by essentially having 2-4 customizations of the same model and presenting them as different models. 2. Confusing attempts to segment. Having the first step on the website be choosing which "segment" you want confuses the user. I'll pick a segment, then be unsure if I'm not seeing models that I'd like to see. Savvy consumers assume that "Home" mean "crummy," but "Business" isn't exactly right either.

napierzaza 16y ago
I think these companies thrive with a confusing market. If you can easily compare two products then the purchase is muddied. I've seen this often with different grocery store products in regards to volumes and masses on sale for fungible items. I think it's best to have confusing figures and specs when you have all these manufacturers who are really trying to produce the cheapest of something (in this case PCs or cellphones). You put the money and the marketing in maybe one overworked detail (big screen, big HDD, fast video card) and then cheap out on everything else. So if they want a certain user to buy their product, they emphasize what they think that user wants.
- perplexes 16y ago
  > I think these companies thrive with a confusing market I don't understand why this is so common, that confusing and ultimately making people unhappy is somehow good for business. Does it actually work this way? I mean, it seems Apple is doing okay and makes customers generally very happy with their products - are they the only exception?
  - pyre 16y ago
    I think that the issue is that Apple spends the time to make quality products, while other manufacturers might just spend the time to make a product that is 'just good enough.' If someone were to be able to do direct comparisons between a 'good enough' and a 'great' product, they wouldn't even think twice about the 'good enough' product.
  - jrwoodruff 16y ago
    It's easier and cheaper. Apple's higher-margin prices allow them to spend more on things like design, usability and really great marketing. If you're selling commodity products, the best you can do is make it difficult to compare to the other products. Go mattress shopping, you'll see what I'm talking about.
- acqw 16y ago
  Exactly! The main idea is to prevent the customer to easily compare features, especially with the offerings of other manufacturers, which would force the company to compete with lower prices, which is obviously undesirable. So it's really intentional in different businesses and there's a word for it, even if it's formulated by a cartoonist: http://riskman.typepad.com/perilocity/2008/12/confusopoly-or-scott-adams-prophet-of-finance.html http://riskman.typepad.com/perilocity/2008/12/confusopoly-or...
- mattmillr 16y ago
  It is especially infuriating in the grocery store when they "go to the trouble" of adding conversion information to the shelf label but then aren't consistent with the units on similar products. Thanks HEB, since you did the math I know that this juice is $0.03/oz. and that juice is $0.79/liter. That helps alot.
  - joshwa 16y ago
    Even more infuriating is when they don't even bother to do the unit pricing! two sizes of the same product- one says "18.00/unit" and the other says "everyday price $21.99"!
  - danudey 16y ago
    I once saw a (pre-packaged, junk food) product that was priced at "$0.35 per 100g" or some such, when the individual portions within the box were 75g each. This is much more frustrating when they do it with nutritional information, showing you the nutritional values for 0.87 individually wrapped jam cakes.
iamdave 16y ago
> having 2-4 customizations of the same model and presenting them as different models. That means YOU Dell and HP.
fragmede 16y ago
Moreover, the segmentation is crummy UI, like coupon codes at checkout. Dell (at least once in the past) prices out the same laptop at different prices, depending on if I'm a 'home' user or a 'business' user. That's bullshit, no matter how you slice it
- jerf 16y ago
  With respect, how sure are you that it was the "same" laptop? I've done that before too, but just because you have the same processor, hard drive, etc. doesn't mean you have the same motherboard, antenna, case, and a variety of other things you can't customize.
  - fragmede 16y ago
    Between certain models, the Dell Inspiron and the Dell Latitude had interchangeable motherboards, had the same integrated graphics, and sourced the same LCD panel. But the actual 'same-ness' is irrelevant in this case - the real issue is my impression that I'm going to get 'ripped off' if I don't sit down for hours and compare their entire product lineup every time I want to buy another Dell laptop. That's a terrible customer expectation and experience vs. Hey, I want an Apple laptop. Oh, I want the Macbook. Look, it's $999 + some basic options. Done.
  - danudey 16y ago
    I was once told that the 'home' and 'small business' sections of the Dell website were managed by different internal business units which set their prices independently. Thus, an identical laptop would differ not necessarily (though sometimes) in base price, but in add-ons, included options, free upgrades, or bundles.
  - schmidp 16y ago
    I recently purchased a monitor from dell and they definitely have different prices for home, smb and government. It's the same monitor, same model number and the same specs. They also seem to have different discounts in different segments.
- thebigshane 16y ago
proscriptus 16y ago
I'll weigh in as a consumer, not a programmer--I'm a writer and photographer, and ordered a 16-inch Toshiba (Satellite A500-ST6647, based on reliability surveys) on Monday. I spent about three weeks revising a spreadsheet, trying to figure out just this, how they differentiate their consumer, business, gaming and multimedia lines. But even harder was trying to calculate actual price. As I'm sure you've seen, there are insane discounting schemes, and base retail price means nothing. And then after scouring for coupons and coming up with a number, that number is only good for two days, because it was a Memorial Day sale and that's over, but wait, here come the Father's Day discounts.

napierzaza 16y ago

I think these companies thrive with a confusing market. If you can easily compare two products then the purchase is muddied. I've seen this often with different grocery store products in regards to volumes and masses on sale for fungible items. I think it's best to have confusing figures and specs when you have all these manufacturers who are really trying to produce the cheapest of something (in this case PCs or cellphones). You put the money and the marketing in maybe one overworked detail (big screen, big HDD, fast video card) and then cheap out on everything else. So if they want a certain user to buy their product, they emphasize what they think that user wants.

perplexes 16y ago
> I think these companies thrive with a confusing market I don't understand why this is so common, that confusing and ultimately making people unhappy is somehow good for business. Does it actually work this way? I mean, it seems Apple is doing okay and makes customers generally very happy with their products - are they the only exception?
- pyre 16y ago
  I think that the issue is that Apple spends the time to make quality products, while other manufacturers might just spend the time to make a product that is 'just good enough.' If someone were to be able to do direct comparisons between a 'good enough' and a 'great' product, they wouldn't even think twice about the 'good enough' product.
- jrwoodruff 16y ago
  It's easier and cheaper. Apple's higher-margin prices allow them to spend more on things like design, usability and really great marketing. If you're selling commodity products, the best you can do is make it difficult to compare to the other products. Go mattress shopping, you'll see what I'm talking about.
acqw 16y ago
Exactly! The main idea is to prevent the customer to easily compare features, especially with the offerings of other manufacturers, which would force the company to compete with lower prices, which is obviously undesirable. So it's really intentional in different businesses and there's a word for it, even if it's formulated by a cartoonist: http://riskman.typepad.com/perilocity/2008/12/confusopoly-or-scott-adams-prophet-of-finance.html http://riskman.typepad.com/perilocity/2008/12/confusopoly-or...
mattmillr 16y ago
It is especially infuriating in the grocery store when they "go to the trouble" of adding conversion information to the shelf label but then aren't consistent with the units on similar products. Thanks HEB, since you did the math I know that this juice is $0.03/oz. and that juice is $0.79/liter. That helps alot.
- joshwa 16y ago
  Even more infuriating is when they don't even bother to do the unit pricing! two sizes of the same product- one says "18.00/unit" and the other says "everyday price $21.99"!
- danudey 16y ago
  I once saw a (pre-packaged, junk food) product that was priced at "$0.35 per 100g" or some such, when the individual portions within the box were 75g each. This is much more frustrating when they do it with nutritional information, showing you the nutritional values for 0.87 individually wrapped jam cakes.

iamdave 16y ago

> having 2-4 customizations of the same model and presenting them as different models. That means YOU Dell and HP.

fragmede 16y ago

Moreover, the segmentation is crummy UI, like coupon codes at checkout. Dell (at least once in the past) prices out the same laptop at different prices, depending on if I'm a 'home' user or a 'business' user. That's bullshit, no matter how you slice it

jerf 16y ago
With respect, how sure are you that it was the "same" laptop? I've done that before too, but just because you have the same processor, hard drive, etc. doesn't mean you have the same motherboard, antenna, case, and a variety of other things you can't customize.
- fragmede 16y ago
  Between certain models, the Dell Inspiron and the Dell Latitude had interchangeable motherboards, had the same integrated graphics, and sourced the same LCD panel. But the actual 'same-ness' is irrelevant in this case - the real issue is my impression that I'm going to get 'ripped off' if I don't sit down for hours and compare their entire product lineup every time I want to buy another Dell laptop. That's a terrible customer expectation and experience vs. Hey, I want an Apple laptop. Oh, I want the Macbook. Look, it's $999 + some basic options. Done.
- danudey 16y ago
  I was once told that the 'home' and 'small business' sections of the Dell website were managed by different internal business units which set their prices independently. Thus, an identical laptop would differ not necessarily (though sometimes) in base price, but in add-ons, included options, free upgrades, or bundles.
- schmidp 16y ago
  I recently purchased a monitor from dell and they definitely have different prices for home, smb and government. It's the same monitor, same model number and the same specs. They also seem to have different discounts in different segments.
thebigshane 16y ago

proscriptus 16y ago

I'll weigh in as a consumer, not a programmer--I'm a writer and photographer, and ordered a 16-inch Toshiba (Satellite A500-ST6647, based on reliability surveys) on Monday. I spent about three weeks revising a spreadsheet, trying to figure out just this, how they differentiate their consumer, business, gaming and multimedia lines. But even harder was trying to calculate actual price. As I'm sure you've seen, there are insane discounting schemes, and base retail price means nothing. And then after scouring for coupons and coming up with a number, that number is only good for two days, because it was a Memorial Day sale and that's over, but wait, here come the Father's Day discounts.