7 ms·

The failure to consider the obvious answer, "because they like their blasphemy laws just fine", reminds me of the following from Mitchell Heisman: "According t

The failure to consider the obvious answer, "because they like their blasphemy laws just fine", reminds me of the following from Mitchell Heisman: "According to one variant of postmodern, liberal theory, all humans of all cultures are really Western liberals (with the possible exception of Western conservatives)."

notgood 9y ago
Exactly, punishment is hold in high esteem when you believe yourself to be righteously demanding it, and no-one believes themselves more righteous than a religious person doing "god's will".
- meric 9y ago
  Good work, you've managed to paint all religious persons under one brush.
  - notgood 9y ago
    Not really, I'm excluding all those who never punish others in the name of god's will.
    - meric 9y ago
      There are many Muslim while paying Zakat also believe themselves to be acting in the name "God's Will". I disagree with you linking demanding punishment of others and acting in the name of God. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171704 Righteously killing other's sons....?
      - notgood 9y ago
        Make the ad-hominem more subtle next time; anyway, that time it was a thread about coal pollution and jobs, it was meant as in leaving the town's offspring without jobs (not actually killing them).
        meric 9y ago
        I repealed your argument before the accusation of your own willingness to punish others in pursuit of your ideology merely highlight your own hypocrisy. There is no subtlety there. EDIT: You changed the label of the group you demonise, "non-rational punishment executioners", from "religious persons doing God's will" to "non-rational punishment executioners", and renounced the poem you wrote while drunk. Now we're on the same page. EDIT2: You changed Will -> Punishment. That's right it's an important difference.
        notgood 9y ago
        No hypocrisy there, I would renounce to everything I have ever said shall someone prove me wrong in each one of them; which is something the non-rational punishment executioners we are talking about will never be able to do or claim. And please don't play dumb, that was suppose to be a poem I wrote when I was a bit drunk, not a final law with no right to be criticized for which to kill those who disagree. EDIT: No, you changed it, I always meant "religious persons doing God's punishment" like I said in the reply on your first comment.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- MrZongle2 9y ago
  Religious zealots certainly can justify extreme actions as being mandated or approved by a supreme being, but let's not kid ourselves: there are plenty of secular examples as well. Consider, for example, the millions of deaths that took place under anti-religious Communist regimes. This certainly isn't to say one is more acceptable than the other; it isn't.
  - Nursie 9y ago
    Any time ideology comes before living, breathing humans we have a problem. Religion certainly seems to provoke this in some people. Political systems can do the same.
  - MrZongle2 9y ago
    I guess I should be shocked that what should be a non-controversial statement has been downvoted heavily. But this is HN. Feels before reals.
    - notgood 9y ago
      It is true that it is not that controversial and mostly true, the thing is that in most places there is much less repulsion from saying "Marx was wrong, communism doesn't work" than for saying "God is wrong, these divine laws are useless". So religion is a strong barricade against criticism, it uses fears no other ideology can use (fear of death/afterlife, fear of non-purpose), and yeah some people have made of communism or fascism and other ideologies even stronger barricades, but at the end of the day, the less ideologies (incl. religions) there are as possible barricades for demagogues to use the better we out to be.
- shawndumas 9y ago
  Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -- C. S. Lewis

notgood 9y ago

Exactly, punishment is hold in high esteem when you believe yourself to be righteously demanding it, and no-one believes themselves more righteous than a religious person doing "god's will".

meric 9y ago
Good work, you've managed to paint all religious persons under one brush.
- notgood 9y ago
  Not really, I'm excluding all those who never punish others in the name of god's will.
  - meric 9y ago
    There are many Muslim while paying Zakat also believe themselves to be acting in the name "God's Will". I disagree with you linking demanding punishment of others and acting in the name of God. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171704 Righteously killing other's sons....?
    - notgood 9y ago
      Make the ad-hominem more subtle next time; anyway, that time it was a thread about coal pollution and jobs, it was meant as in leaving the town's offspring without jobs (not actually killing them).
      - meric 9y ago
        I repealed your argument before the accusation of your own willingness to punish others in pursuit of your ideology merely highlight your own hypocrisy. There is no subtlety there. EDIT: You changed the label of the group you demonise, "non-rational punishment executioners", from "religious persons doing God's will" to "non-rational punishment executioners", and renounced the poem you wrote while drunk. Now we're on the same page. EDIT2: You changed Will -> Punishment. That's right it's an important difference.
        notgood 9y ago
        No hypocrisy there, I would renounce to everything I have ever said shall someone prove me wrong in each one of them; which is something the non-rational punishment executioners we are talking about will never be able to do or claim. And please don't play dumb, that was suppose to be a poem I wrote when I was a bit drunk, not a final law with no right to be criticized for which to kill those who disagree. EDIT: No, you changed it, I always meant "religious persons doing God's punishment" like I said in the reply on your first comment.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
MrZongle2 9y ago
Religious zealots certainly can justify extreme actions as being mandated or approved by a supreme being, but let's not kid ourselves: there are plenty of secular examples as well. Consider, for example, the millions of deaths that took place under anti-religious Communist regimes. This certainly isn't to say one is more acceptable than the other; it isn't.
- Nursie 9y ago
  Any time ideology comes before living, breathing humans we have a problem. Religion certainly seems to provoke this in some people. Political systems can do the same.
- MrZongle2 9y ago
  I guess I should be shocked that what should be a non-controversial statement has been downvoted heavily. But this is HN. Feels before reals.
  - notgood 9y ago
    It is true that it is not that controversial and mostly true, the thing is that in most places there is much less repulsion from saying "Marx was wrong, communism doesn't work" than for saying "God is wrong, these divine laws are useless". So religion is a strong barricade against criticism, it uses fears no other ideology can use (fear of death/afterlife, fear of non-purpose), and yeah some people have made of communism or fascism and other ideologies even stronger barricades, but at the end of the day, the less ideologies (incl. religions) there are as possible barricades for demagogues to use the better we out to be.
shawndumas 9y ago
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. -- C. S. Lewis