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The idea isn't new, 1984 explores what such restricted language become: a tool for restricting thought(Sapir-Whorf hypothesis) by limiting the conceptual space
by FrozenVoid 10y ago
The idea isn't new, 1984 explores what such restricted language become: a tool for restricting thought(Sapir-Whorf hypothesis) by limiting the conceptual space of language speakers("Double-plus-ungood").
Toki Pona is a form of Newspeak, not some mind-expanding tool. By replacing signified concepts with primitive composition and generic fit-all 'thought-idea' it removes all abstract meaning to what is essentially emotional picture of a concept(e.g. "belly-feel" of 1984).
- mysterydip 10y ago"Avoid using the word 'very' because it's lazy. A man is not very tired, he is exhausted. Don't use very sad, use morose. Language was invented for one reason boys - to woo women - and in that endeavor, laziness will not do." - Dead Poet's Society
- trendia 10y ago> Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women Rule #1: Know your Audience
- crawfordcomeaux 10y agoAre you afraid widespread usage of Toki Pona will lead to a more Orwellian society because you don't trust people to use it in a balanced, nuanced way? I'm learning it after reading this article for the sake of testing the theory of if it promotes mindfulness. I'm also evaluating it in the context of nonviolent communication to see if it can adequately communicate fundamental human emotions & needs.
- jandrese 10y agoI have zero worries that Toki Pona will take over as a primary language in the foreseeable future. It's more of a research toy than a language for daily use.
- throwaway7645 10y agoAgreed, it is just a toy, but the parent level comments mainly seem to say that they find both this and emojis to be a step in the wrong direction. I seriously doubt they think people playing in this mini-language will bring about an Orwellian dystopia.
- crawfordcomeaux 9y agoI'm slowly trying to develop a human programming language with mathematical foundations in categorical neuroscience. It's meant to be a standardized way to create personalized scripts for people to follow to achieve whatever changes in their brain/mind/body they want. Think of it as a strict subset of natural language. Toki Pona or something like it seems like a useful tool in that context, though I'm not sure how it might fit in yet.
- FrozenVoid 10y agoI'm not afraid of what Toki Pona is now, its the whole reductionist attitude("one picture worth a thousand words") that strips semantic load from communication, restricting the communication to "just fundamentals" as if we meant to be a primitive culture that can't express complex ideas. You can see this attitude with emojis and SMS-speech, which both reduce the intellectual effort to level of pre-school chat, which feels less of a cognitive load than full communication of adults. Its like a mind-virus that makes you less inclined to form complex thoughts, or anything more expressive than a pair of emojis. Toki Pona is essentially a set of about a hundred emojis in text form. When there is semantic gap, Toki Pona users have to juggle around and combine their emoji-words to get a generic feel of the idea, just like emoji-users have to deal with limited conceptual space by composition.
- crawfordcomeaux 10y agoAre you speaking from your experience of speaking Toki Pona or is this conjecture?
- johan_larson 10y agoIt doesn't really work that way. Stephen Pinker talks about this in some of his books. In the real world, some communities have used very restricted languages ("pidgins") for work and trade. But when you raise the next generation in such a language they quite spontaneously complexify and enrich the original pidgin into something called a creole. And creoles are full-featured languages.