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Over here in Germany a speed limit typically means there's a good reason to follow it. On the Autobahn we've got places where there is no speed limit at all (ye

by froh42 9y ago

Over here in Germany a speed limit typically means there's a good reason to follow it. On the Autobahn we've got places where there is no speed limit at all (yep, there's places where I can legally go 250 km/h) and on other places the speed may be set as low as 80 km/h (around 50mph). A low speed limit typically is enforced with a traffic camera. Additionally we've go a lot of dynamic speed signs which show a speed limit which fits the current traffic conditions. (empty road at night - it's turned off. Rush hour - 80 km/h. Fog - 60 km/h And several steps in between) Not having a "fixed" all the time limit makes drives accept the speed limit more easily. Oh yes, and 85'th percentile. I frequently drive "+15km/h", so I go 95 when there's 80 allowed because the fine when I get caught that is not too expensive. (Fines for speeding are lower when you get caught outside city limits, speeding in a residential zone or in front of a school for example is one thing I have no tolerance for as well.)

Zak 9y ago
One interesting reason for imposing speed limits on some sections of German highway is to reduce road noise. It's not always a traffic engineering reason. The article talks about differential speed and lane discipline. In Germany, it's not rare to see people driving 250 km/h (155 mph), but some heavy trucks are restricted to 80 km/h (50 mph) regardless of the speed limit. Germans are very strict about lane discipline though. It's generally illegal to pass on the right or be in the left lane when not passing, and someone who puts their turn signal on to move left will usually respond to a flash of the headlights from an approaching car and wait for it to go by. As an American who has spent a lot of time in Germany, and driven across Texas a few times, I sometimes wish for German style speed unlimited-speed highways in the US, but I think it would be hard to get American drivers to adopt German attentiveness and discipline.
strictfp 9y ago
Germany is also the most stressful country to drive in I think. You usually have three or four lanes - 80 kmph truck lane, 140 kmph standard lane, 200 kmph I'm slightly crazy lane and 250 kmph I'm a loonie lane. When you accelerate from the 80kmph to the 140kmph you better have a good engine or you feel stressed like hell slowing everybody else down. And keeping right all the times just creates a lot of unnecessary dynamics in traffic flow. Don't even get me started on congestions when everybody slams their breaks and hit the warning blinkers. German traffic is for macho wannabe race drivers. I rather have US traffic or the traffic in the Netherlands where everybody just set their cruise control and drive casually. In the Netherlands they also have trajectory speed checks, so you cannot speed anywhere from point A to B, since they clock your total time. Works wonders for getting a nice steady flow on the highway. My 5 cents anyway.
- Zak 9y ago
  My experience driving in Germany is that it's very rare to see four lanes. Three is common enough, but usually around major cities where there's a speed limit. More typical is two. The highways are also regularly torn up and rebuilt to maintain a glass-smooth surface on which one could safely drive 300 km/h, but it's only possible to maintain that for a minute because then you hit another construction zone or traffic jam caused by inadequate capacity. Despite all the construction, the highways rarely get widened, just resurfaced. I don't think the main problem is that speed differentials are causing poor dynamics, but that the roads don't have enough lanes.
  - seszett 9y ago
    > I don't think the main problem is that speed differentials are causing poor dynamics, but that the roads don't have enough lanes. I don't know. I drove throughout Germany a few times last year, and I didn't really understand why there were so many jams and general slowdowns. I usually drive in France where the highways are almost exactly the same as Germany (most often two lanes, frequently three, rarely more, usually in very good state) and traffic is rarely as bad. I got stranded a few times in completely still traffic, for tens of minutes, during a normal working day, while this only ever happens at the worst time of holiday traffic in France. Maybe it's because French highways are paying which probably discourages some drivers, but I also noticed a lot of roadworks in Germany (almost as bad as Belgium during the height of roadworks there last year). Enough, as you said, to never be able to maintain a high speed for long, while you barely ever notice those in France. I don't know how French companies do it, but I'm pretty sure it helps with the traffic. Other than the traffic though, driving in Germany was a pleasure. People are aware of their surroundings and don't drive like the road was theirs.
    - smitherfield 9y ago
      Having driven in both countries, I think that has a lot to do with the extremely steep tolls on French highways, and the much higher gas tax. I believe Germany also has a higher rate of car ownership and the average population density is higher.
skolos 9y ago
When driving in Germany I noticed that I hardly ever used cruise control - you need to change speeds quite often since areas with reduced speed and unlimited speed change all the time. In US I use cruise control all the time since speed limits are constant over very long stretches. This makes driving in Germany fun, but driving in US less stressful and tiresome.
thaumasiotes 9y ago
> we've got a lot of dynamic speed signs which show a speed limit which fits the current traffic conditions. > Rush hour - 80 km/h Does "rush hour" mean something different in Germany? You couldn't go 80 km/h in rush hour if you tried.
- MagnumOpus 9y ago
  It's a maximum speed limit, not a minimum speed. Rush hour means jams in Germany too - that is the reason for the speed limit, so you don't drive into the back of a traffic jam going 80 miles an hour.
chrisper 9y ago
Don't you get a point on your driving record when driving over 10km\h over the limit or was that 20?
rsp1984 9y ago
> A low speed limit typically is enforced with a traffic camera. Is it possible you live in NRW? It's a bit extreme there. Much fewer speed cameras in other parts of the country.
lloeki 9y ago
I live near the Germany border and the speed limits here in France just consistently produce some of the most dangerous behaviors I've witnessed, while crossing the border and it's just fine, even if people sometimes pass you on the right, and even if, like anywhere, shitty dicks do exist. Also, it's far from a stress free experience in France when there are speed checks at every corner and you spend your time looking at your speedometer and on the lookout for controls even if you respect the speed limit instead of the road and other drivers, because it's so easy to ever so slightly drive above the limit as it's set to such an unnatural value. You just feel coerced, constantly watched and judged as guilty by default and it's terrible. Worse, there is a whole category of people that feel safe as long as they dutifully respect the limit and since it's so low they get bored and text or phone or play with the kids or fiddle with their GPS, not feeling responsible the least about hurling more than a metric ton of metal at speeds that are anyway entirely unnatural. In Germany you just drive and since there is quite the gradient of speed alongside the perpendicular axis of the road, it's just fine and you feel safe at whatever speed you drive: people just don't close-call zoom past you at 200+kph when you cruise at 120kph. It's just surprising at first because you got that message shoehorned at every moment that speed kills and speeders are the worst scumbags on earth, but as soon as you learn to drive socially so to speak and not like an individualist prick isolated in your cage of metal, things get really better. The road is best lived together, pay respect to the flow which you're part of and you'll be damn fine.
- hvidgaard 9y ago
  > when there are speed checks at every corner and you spend your time looking at your speedometer and on the lookout for controls even if you respect the speed limit instead of the road and other drivers If you cannot check your speedometer, and safely navigate in the trafic at the same time, you should stop and look inwards. It is not hard.
  - lloeki 9y ago
    There's a difference between looking at the speedo because you're rechecking your speed and feeling pressed into doing it out of fear of being caught speeding 2kph above the limit simply because there's variability. I'm not saying it's hard, I'm saying it's distracting and stressful having to constantly poll and check for an arbitrary number that bears no actual relation to safety (which is the factor that drives anyone's natural speed limit feedback loop). IOW here I'm talking about the psychological effect that induces fear, stress and guilt in the driver, not the technical ability to do it. I believe coercion is not the proper way to educate people into living respectfully together.
rdl 9y ago
I love driving in Germany. The only things I wish they'd explained to me before picking up a rental car: 1) The "priority road" system, indicated with diamond signs, for right of way on secondary roads. This isn't quite as weird for outsiders as the weird British Columbia flashing green lights thing (wtf), but still, almost caused an accident the first time I encountered it at night. 2) When traffic is stopped and you want to allow emergency vehicles, you make a gap between (California) lanes 1 and 2, i.e. where Californian motorcycles go; in the US (and everywhere else I've seen), emergency vehicle drive on the shoulder. Either makes sense, but knowing what's going to happen is good. I naturally pulled toward the right in the leftmost lane until I looked behind me and saw flashing lights coming up fast.
adrianratnapala 9y ago
Other cities might be different, but small (and some no-so-small) streets in Munich streets have a 30km/h limit (note to Americans, that's less that 20 mile/h). I never saw many cars obeying those limits. As far as I can see those limits exist to make the politicians responsible for them look concerned about safety.
- usrusr 9y ago
  Drivers don't obey those limits to the letter, but they certainly do recognize them in so far as that they go considerably slower than the speed they would drive if the limit wasn't there.
lucaspiller 9y ago
> a speed limit typically means there's a good reason to follow it I'd say in the UK it's pretty similar as well. The standard limit on single-carriageway roads, unless indicated, is 60mph/97kmh. This could be anything from a bypass around a town, to a small country road with tight bends and steep drops at the side. The limit is usually only lowered if going through a town/village (typically 30mph or 40mph) or if there is a some sort of danger that you wouldn't expect, like a hidden junction on a bend.

by froh42 9y ago

Zak 9y ago

One interesting reason for imposing speed limits on some sections of German highway is to reduce road noise. It's not always a traffic engineering reason. The article talks about differential speed and lane discipline. In Germany, it's not rare to see people driving 250 km/h (155 mph), but some heavy trucks are restricted to 80 km/h (50 mph) regardless of the speed limit. Germans are very strict about lane discipline though. It's generally illegal to pass on the right or be in the left lane when not passing, and someone who puts their turn signal on to move left will usually respond to a flash of the headlights from an approaching car and wait for it to go by. As an American who has spent a lot of time in Germany, and driven across Texas a few times, I sometimes wish for German style speed unlimited-speed highways in the US, but I think it would be hard to get American drivers to adopt German attentiveness and discipline.

strictfp 9y ago

Germany is also the most stressful country to drive in I think. You usually have three or four lanes - 80 kmph truck lane, 140 kmph standard lane, 200 kmph I'm slightly crazy lane and 250 kmph I'm a loonie lane. When you accelerate from the 80kmph to the 140kmph you better have a good engine or you feel stressed like hell slowing everybody else down. And keeping right all the times just creates a lot of unnecessary dynamics in traffic flow. Don't even get me started on congestions when everybody slams their breaks and hit the warning blinkers. German traffic is for macho wannabe race drivers. I rather have US traffic or the traffic in the Netherlands where everybody just set their cruise control and drive casually. In the Netherlands they also have trajectory speed checks, so you cannot speed anywhere from point A to B, since they clock your total time. Works wonders for getting a nice steady flow on the highway. My 5 cents anyway.

Zak 9y ago
My experience driving in Germany is that it's very rare to see four lanes. Three is common enough, but usually around major cities where there's a speed limit. More typical is two. The highways are also regularly torn up and rebuilt to maintain a glass-smooth surface on which one could safely drive 300 km/h, but it's only possible to maintain that for a minute because then you hit another construction zone or traffic jam caused by inadequate capacity. Despite all the construction, the highways rarely get widened, just resurfaced. I don't think the main problem is that speed differentials are causing poor dynamics, but that the roads don't have enough lanes.
- seszett 9y ago
  > I don't think the main problem is that speed differentials are causing poor dynamics, but that the roads don't have enough lanes. I don't know. I drove throughout Germany a few times last year, and I didn't really understand why there were so many jams and general slowdowns. I usually drive in France where the highways are almost exactly the same as Germany (most often two lanes, frequently three, rarely more, usually in very good state) and traffic is rarely as bad. I got stranded a few times in completely still traffic, for tens of minutes, during a normal working day, while this only ever happens at the worst time of holiday traffic in France. Maybe it's because French highways are paying which probably discourages some drivers, but I also noticed a lot of roadworks in Germany (almost as bad as Belgium during the height of roadworks there last year). Enough, as you said, to never be able to maintain a high speed for long, while you barely ever notice those in France. I don't know how French companies do it, but I'm pretty sure it helps with the traffic. Other than the traffic though, driving in Germany was a pleasure. People are aware of their surroundings and don't drive like the road was theirs.
  - smitherfield 9y ago
    Having driven in both countries, I think that has a lot to do with the extremely steep tolls on French highways, and the much higher gas tax. I believe Germany also has a higher rate of car ownership and the average population density is higher.

skolos 9y ago

When driving in Germany I noticed that I hardly ever used cruise control - you need to change speeds quite often since areas with reduced speed and unlimited speed change all the time. In US I use cruise control all the time since speed limits are constant over very long stretches. This makes driving in Germany fun, but driving in US less stressful and tiresome.

thaumasiotes 9y ago

> we've got a lot of dynamic speed signs which show a speed limit which fits the current traffic conditions. > Rush hour - 80 km/h Does "rush hour" mean something different in Germany? You couldn't go 80 km/h in rush hour if you tried.

MagnumOpus 9y ago
It's a maximum speed limit, not a minimum speed. Rush hour means jams in Germany too - that is the reason for the speed limit, so you don't drive into the back of a traffic jam going 80 miles an hour.

chrisper 9y ago

Don't you get a point on your driving record when driving over 10km\h over the limit or was that 20?

rsp1984 9y ago

> A low speed limit typically is enforced with a traffic camera. Is it possible you live in NRW? It's a bit extreme there. Much fewer speed cameras in other parts of the country.

lloeki 9y ago

I live near the Germany border and the speed limits here in France just consistently produce some of the most dangerous behaviors I've witnessed, while crossing the border and it's just fine, even if people sometimes pass you on the right, and even if, like anywhere, shitty dicks do exist. Also, it's far from a stress free experience in France when there are speed checks at every corner and you spend your time looking at your speedometer and on the lookout for controls even if you respect the speed limit instead of the road and other drivers, because it's so easy to ever so slightly drive above the limit as it's set to such an unnatural value. You just feel coerced, constantly watched and judged as guilty by default and it's terrible. Worse, there is a whole category of people that feel safe as long as they dutifully respect the limit and since it's so low they get bored and text or phone or play with the kids or fiddle with their GPS, not feeling responsible the least about hurling more than a metric ton of metal at speeds that are anyway entirely unnatural. In Germany you just drive and since there is quite the gradient of speed alongside the perpendicular axis of the road, it's just fine and you feel safe at whatever speed you drive: people just don't close-call zoom past you at 200+kph when you cruise at 120kph. It's just surprising at first because you got that message shoehorned at every moment that speed kills and speeders are the worst scumbags on earth, but as soon as you learn to drive socially so to speak and not like an individualist prick isolated in your cage of metal, things get really better. The road is best lived together, pay respect to the flow which you're part of and you'll be damn fine.

hvidgaard 9y ago
> when there are speed checks at every corner and you spend your time looking at your speedometer and on the lookout for controls even if you respect the speed limit instead of the road and other drivers If you cannot check your speedometer, and safely navigate in the trafic at the same time, you should stop and look inwards. It is not hard.
- lloeki 9y ago
  There's a difference between looking at the speedo because you're rechecking your speed and feeling pressed into doing it out of fear of being caught speeding 2kph above the limit simply because there's variability. I'm not saying it's hard, I'm saying it's distracting and stressful having to constantly poll and check for an arbitrary number that bears no actual relation to safety (which is the factor that drives anyone's natural speed limit feedback loop). IOW here I'm talking about the psychological effect that induces fear, stress and guilt in the driver, not the technical ability to do it. I believe coercion is not the proper way to educate people into living respectfully together.

rdl 9y ago

I love driving in Germany. The only things I wish they'd explained to me before picking up a rental car: 1) The "priority road" system, indicated with diamond signs, for right of way on secondary roads. This isn't quite as weird for outsiders as the weird British Columbia flashing green lights thing (wtf), but still, almost caused an accident the first time I encountered it at night. 2) When traffic is stopped and you want to allow emergency vehicles, you make a gap between (California) lanes 1 and 2, i.e. where Californian motorcycles go; in the US (and everywhere else I've seen), emergency vehicle drive on the shoulder. Either makes sense, but knowing what's going to happen is good. I naturally pulled toward the right in the leftmost lane until I looked behind me and saw flashing lights coming up fast.

adrianratnapala 9y ago

Other cities might be different, but small (and some no-so-small) streets in Munich streets have a 30km/h limit (note to Americans, that's less that 20 mile/h). I never saw many cars obeying those limits. As far as I can see those limits exist to make the politicians responsible for them look concerned about safety.

usrusr 9y ago
Drivers don't obey those limits to the letter, but they certainly do recognize them in so far as that they go considerably slower than the speed they would drive if the limit wasn't there.

lucaspiller 9y ago

> a speed limit typically means there's a good reason to follow it I'd say in the UK it's pretty similar as well. The standard limit on single-carriageway roads, unless indicated, is 60mph/97kmh. This could be anything from a bypass around a town, to a small country road with tight bends and steep drops at the side. The limit is usually only lowered if going through a town/village (typically 30mph or 40mph) or if there is a some sort of danger that you wouldn't expect, like a hidden junction on a bend.