7 ms·

A Look at the Ugly Side of Getting Rich

71 points by thisisit 10y ago

gmarx 10y ago
When Fortune (or was it Forbes) introduced the list of 500 richest Americans (early 1970s?) many people on the list were angry and threatened to sue. Now it's honor, a form a celebrity
- vkou 10y ago
  That was in the age of the Red Scare. These people had reason to be seriously concerned that they may find themselves on the wrong end of a torch and pitchfork.
  - gmarx 10y ago
    Maybe but it was also towards the end of an age when people generally considered it to be in poor taste to talk about money.
- clort 10y ago
  people are still sueing Forbes http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-saudi-billionaire-idUSBRE9560Q020130607
  - gmarx 10y ago
    Ha!
- mncharity 10y ago
  As was pointed out by a long-ago HN comment I've now failed to find, the tabloid "richest" lists measure particularly public forms of wealth. People who don't wish to be on such lists, now manage their wealth so they're not.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
justboxing 10y ago
> In another, Imelda Marcos, the former first lady of the Philippines accused of stealing billions from state coffers, sits in her Manila apartment beneath a gold-framed Picasso Everytime I read something like this, I feel ill. What drives human beings to this level of greed and excess? Is there some primitive or primate instinct in all of us? Meanwhile, the beggar children in India don't even have a shirt on their back. True story: When I went back to India for the very 1st time after coming to America, I saw a shirtless kid on a train station begging for food. I opened my suitcase and gave him 1 of my oversized (for him) shirt. The look on his face was priceless. What drives so many people throughout history over 100s of years to hoard stuff and waste (mostly) ill-acquired wealth?? Is there something in-grained in us, that we can't resist it?? Still searching for an explanation.
- self-diversity 10y ago
  What in particular makes you feel ill about this? What is the strong emotion that affects you so upon reading of the wealth of a person you will never meet? Normally when people say this, their tone makes it evident they are envious, but that's missing here and I'm curious.
  - iza 10y ago
    There is no moral justification for accumulating more wealth than you and your family can spend in a lifetime. The only way to amass such an amount is by exploiting the labour of others. The extremely wealthy are a net drain on society.
    - wufufufu 10y ago
      I often wonder what would happen if there existed a public, self-updating list of every person on earth and their respective net worth.
  - haasted 10y ago
    Sounds like it's because he has seen the polar opposite, and is frustrated that the resources Marcos is spending on gold-framed Picassos and shoes are not used to improve the existence of the vast number of poor people in the region.
pilom 10y ago
> Money doesn't make you happy. It makes you unhappy in a better part of town. Great quote!
- ohstopitu 10y ago
  a friend of mine used to say "you can cry in a corolla, or in a Ferrari, but I sure as hell would want to cry in a Ferrari"
- homulilly 10y ago
  It's something only the fabulously wealthy can say. For almost everyone else, even if money doesn't directly make you happier, it removes the vast majority of barriers to attaining happiness (though clearly not all of them). I know I'm much happier now that I make six figures and don't have to worry as much about medical bills, rent, food and so on and have disposable income to direct into new hobbies I couldn't have afforded before (fishkeeping and hydroponics in my case).
  - bbctol 10y ago
    A better quote, from eminent philosopher Kanye West, would be "Having money isn't everything; not having it is."
  - fulafel 10y ago
    Most places in western countries provide citizens medical and food/shelter security without being wealthy.
    - tsunamifury 10y ago
      Except the largest Western nation in the world...
- return0 10y ago
  also, not true
- mdekkers 10y ago
bkeroack 10y ago
For those of you in LA, this work is being exhibited at the Annenberg Space for Photography in Century City. Highly recommended.
Banthum 10y ago
I really wish people would stop using the term "1%" to refer to the super-rich. They're actually talking about the 0.01%, or an even smaller group. Heck, anyone making $30k/year is in the 1% globally. Even in the West, a good (not superstar) doctor or lawyer can expect to be in the 1%. If you're buying $300k handbags, you're way, way, way beyond the 1%. II Documentary works like this, mixing avaricious fascination with super-wealth as well as the morally-delicious feeling of superiority, always put me off a bit. It's sort of like the inverse of watching Hoarders - you get to be horrified and fascinated and feel superior at the same time. "How could someone live like this?" you get to say. "I would never..." you get to say. (Not saying that this photographer had that intention, specifically - I'm more commenting on the audience than the photog). People are people; wealth is wealth; most people would act in these ways if they could. And from the point of view of a kid starving in Delhi slums, your Prius looks a lot like Imelda Marcos' gold-framed Picasso. That said... I'm looking at these photos with interest :)
- tekjsraske 10y ago
  I wish people would stop using the "1%" as a global entity. When people refer to the "1%" it is understood implicitly that they are referring to the 1% of the wealthiest individuals in the western world. By referring to the "1%" in the way you do, you demean people who struggle daily making 8 bucks an hour because "chin up, you're in the 1% hehe". You think you're doing some good by making this argument, but really you're hurting more people than you understand.
  - magic_beans 10y ago
    > When people refer to the "1%" it is understood implicitly that they are referring to the 1% of the wealthiest individuals in the western world. The people making minimum wage in the western world are, by your own definition, NOT in the 1%. They are very much NOT among the wealthiest individuals in the western world. It's not demeaning at all.
Mendenhall 10y ago
I think part of the problem is how often people idolize the rich just for being rich and not for what sort of person they are, it enables them. Money doesnt impress me, good people impress me.
- charlesdm 10y ago
  And there are plenty of good people with money, and without.
flubert 10y ago
Interesting that "In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14194803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14194803 ...was posted 3 hours before this one.
return0 10y ago
So what do you do when you have a ton of money? You can of course spend it on charity or investing in companies, but that requires work, and is not in everyone's interests. There are also only so many expensive things that they can buy in this world, so they buy all of them, and some more, and there is still a lot of money left to spend. Even if they do all of the above, there will be more money left, and the search for purpose and meaning will become more and more intense. Also, due to the nature of capitalism, the rich can't stop making more wealth than the rest.
MR4D 10y ago
Bloomberg should retitle this article "The Ugly Side of Greed". But then we never would have read it. ;) The people portrayed here are on the extreme end of greed & materialism. I once worked with an almost-billionaire family. If you ran into them in a restaurant, you would never know. They were out of the mold of Sam Walton. Ok, they drove Cadillacs, but Cadillacs with well over 100,000 miles on them. The rest of their vehicles were Chevy Tahoes or Ford pickups. Further, there are tons of millionaires who saved their money over their life. They don't act like this, and they probably live right near you, but you wouldn't notice because they don't go overboard on their materialism. On the poorer end of the spectrum, there are tons of "credit-card millionaires" - as I call people who make $100-300,000 per year but have no real savings and spend all their money on "glamorous" crap that fills up their homes. To me, the article is about people just like this, but who have secured more money - their behavior is identical.
- SyneRyder 10y ago
  > I once worked with an almost-billionaire family. If you ran into them in a restaurant, you would never know. One of my favorite books is The Billionaire Who Wasn't, about Chuck Feeney of DFS (Duty-Free Shoppers), and it keeps referencing his cheap Casio watch: “Since my earliest days I have been frugal, but I am a frugal person in that I hate waste, at any level,” says Feeney, who always wears off-the-peg clothes, a cheap plastic watch, and reading glasses of the type sold in book-stores. “If I can get a watch for $15 that keeps perfect time, what am I doing messing around with a Rolex?” https://www.amazon.com/Billionaire-Who-Wasnt-Secretly-Fortune/dp/1610393341/ https://www.amazon.com/Billionaire-Who-Wasnt-Secretly-Fortun... [Incidentally, it means the $200 Pebble watch I wear & love is 13x more expensive/extravagant than that of a billionaire. Gives an interesting perspective.]
  - jjeaff 10y ago
    It actually makes more sense for the already successful and wealthy to not be interested in outward appearance. They have no one to impress and nothing to gain by showing off. Your up and coming business man, however, may have some logical reasons to signal wealth. Either for networking purposes or convincing potential customers or partners that you are the type of successful person they might want to work with, conspicuous consumption can have its merits.

71 points by thisisit 10y ago

gmarx 10y ago

When Fortune (or was it Forbes) introduced the list of 500 richest Americans (early 1970s?) many people on the list were angry and threatened to sue. Now it's honor, a form a celebrity

vkou 10y ago
That was in the age of the Red Scare. These people had reason to be seriously concerned that they may find themselves on the wrong end of a torch and pitchfork.
- gmarx 10y ago
  Maybe but it was also towards the end of an age when people generally considered it to be in poor taste to talk about money.
clort 10y ago
people are still sueing Forbes http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-saudi-billionaire-idUSBRE9560Q020130607
- gmarx 10y ago
  Ha!
mncharity 10y ago
As was pointed out by a long-ago HN comment I've now failed to find, the tabloid "richest" lists measure particularly public forms of wealth. People who don't wish to be on such lists, now manage their wealth so they're not.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

justboxing 10y ago

> In another, Imelda Marcos, the former first lady of the Philippines accused of stealing billions from state coffers, sits in her Manila apartment beneath a gold-framed Picasso Everytime I read something like this, I feel ill. What drives human beings to this level of greed and excess? Is there some primitive or primate instinct in all of us? Meanwhile, the beggar children in India don't even have a shirt on their back. True story: When I went back to India for the very 1st time after coming to America, I saw a shirtless kid on a train station begging for food. I opened my suitcase and gave him 1 of my oversized (for him) shirt. The look on his face was priceless. What drives so many people throughout history over 100s of years to hoard stuff and waste (mostly) ill-acquired wealth?? Is there something in-grained in us, that we can't resist it?? Still searching for an explanation.

self-diversity 10y ago
What in particular makes you feel ill about this? What is the strong emotion that affects you so upon reading of the wealth of a person you will never meet? Normally when people say this, their tone makes it evident they are envious, but that's missing here and I'm curious.
- iza 10y ago
  There is no moral justification for accumulating more wealth than you and your family can spend in a lifetime. The only way to amass such an amount is by exploiting the labour of others. The extremely wealthy are a net drain on society.
  - wufufufu 10y ago
    I often wonder what would happen if there existed a public, self-updating list of every person on earth and their respective net worth.
- haasted 10y ago
  Sounds like it's because he has seen the polar opposite, and is frustrated that the resources Marcos is spending on gold-framed Picassos and shoes are not used to improve the existence of the vast number of poor people in the region.

pilom 10y ago

> Money doesn't make you happy. It makes you unhappy in a better part of town. Great quote!

ohstopitu 10y ago
a friend of mine used to say "you can cry in a corolla, or in a Ferrari, but I sure as hell would want to cry in a Ferrari"
homulilly 10y ago
It's something only the fabulously wealthy can say. For almost everyone else, even if money doesn't directly make you happier, it removes the vast majority of barriers to attaining happiness (though clearly not all of them). I know I'm much happier now that I make six figures and don't have to worry as much about medical bills, rent, food and so on and have disposable income to direct into new hobbies I couldn't have afforded before (fishkeeping and hydroponics in my case).
- bbctol 10y ago
  A better quote, from eminent philosopher Kanye West, would be "Having money isn't everything; not having it is."
- fulafel 10y ago
  Most places in western countries provide citizens medical and food/shelter security without being wealthy.
  - tsunamifury 10y ago
    Except the largest Western nation in the world...
return0 10y ago
also, not true
mdekkers 10y ago

bkeroack 10y ago

For those of you in LA, this work is being exhibited at the Annenberg Space for Photography in Century City. Highly recommended.

Banthum 10y ago

I really wish people would stop using the term "1%" to refer to the super-rich. They're actually talking about the 0.01%, or an even smaller group. Heck, anyone making $30k/year is in the 1% globally. Even in the West, a good (not superstar) doctor or lawyer can expect to be in the 1%. If you're buying $300k handbags, you're way, way, way beyond the 1%. II Documentary works like this, mixing avaricious fascination with super-wealth as well as the morally-delicious feeling of superiority, always put me off a bit. It's sort of like the inverse of watching Hoarders - you get to be horrified and fascinated and feel superior at the same time. "How could someone live like this?" you get to say. "I would never..." you get to say. (Not saying that this photographer had that intention, specifically - I'm more commenting on the audience than the photog). People are people; wealth is wealth; most people would act in these ways if they could. And from the point of view of a kid starving in Delhi slums, your Prius looks a lot like Imelda Marcos' gold-framed Picasso. That said... I'm looking at these photos with interest :)

tekjsraske 10y ago
I wish people would stop using the "1%" as a global entity. When people refer to the "1%" it is understood implicitly that they are referring to the 1% of the wealthiest individuals in the western world. By referring to the "1%" in the way you do, you demean people who struggle daily making 8 bucks an hour because "chin up, you're in the 1% hehe". You think you're doing some good by making this argument, but really you're hurting more people than you understand.
- magic_beans 10y ago
  > When people refer to the "1%" it is understood implicitly that they are referring to the 1% of the wealthiest individuals in the western world. The people making minimum wage in the western world are, by your own definition, NOT in the 1%. They are very much NOT among the wealthiest individuals in the western world. It's not demeaning at all.

Mendenhall 10y ago

I think part of the problem is how often people idolize the rich just for being rich and not for what sort of person they are, it enables them. Money doesnt impress me, good people impress me.

charlesdm 10y ago
And there are plenty of good people with money, and without.

flubert 10y ago

Interesting that "In Bay Area, six-figure salaries are “low income”" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14194803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14194803 ...was posted 3 hours before this one.

return0 10y ago

So what do you do when you have a ton of money? You can of course spend it on charity or investing in companies, but that requires work, and is not in everyone's interests. There are also only so many expensive things that they can buy in this world, so they buy all of them, and some more, and there is still a lot of money left to spend. Even if they do all of the above, there will be more money left, and the search for purpose and meaning will become more and more intense. Also, due to the nature of capitalism, the rich can't stop making more wealth than the rest.

MR4D 10y ago

Bloomberg should retitle this article "The Ugly Side of Greed". But then we never would have read it. ;) The people portrayed here are on the extreme end of greed & materialism. I once worked with an almost-billionaire family. If you ran into them in a restaurant, you would never know. They were out of the mold of Sam Walton. Ok, they drove Cadillacs, but Cadillacs with well over 100,000 miles on them. The rest of their vehicles were Chevy Tahoes or Ford pickups. Further, there are tons of millionaires who saved their money over their life. They don't act like this, and they probably live right near you, but you wouldn't notice because they don't go overboard on their materialism. On the poorer end of the spectrum, there are tons of "credit-card millionaires" - as I call people who make $100-300,000 per year but have no real savings and spend all their money on "glamorous" crap that fills up their homes. To me, the article is about people just like this, but who have secured more money - their behavior is identical.

SyneRyder 10y ago
> I once worked with an almost-billionaire family. If you ran into them in a restaurant, you would never know. One of my favorite books is The Billionaire Who Wasn't, about Chuck Feeney of DFS (Duty-Free Shoppers), and it keeps referencing his cheap Casio watch: “Since my earliest days I have been frugal, but I am a frugal person in that I hate waste, at any level,” says Feeney, who always wears off-the-peg clothes, a cheap plastic watch, and reading glasses of the type sold in book-stores. “If I can get a watch for $15 that keeps perfect time, what am I doing messing around with a Rolex?” https://www.amazon.com/Billionaire-Who-Wasnt-Secretly-Fortune/dp/1610393341/ https://www.amazon.com/Billionaire-Who-Wasnt-Secretly-Fortun... [Incidentally, it means the $200 Pebble watch I wear & love is 13x more expensive/extravagant than that of a billionaire. Gives an interesting perspective.]
- jjeaff 10y ago
  It actually makes more sense for the already successful and wealthy to not be interested in outward appearance. They have no one to impress and nothing to gain by showing off. Your up and coming business man, however, may have some logical reasons to signal wealth. Either for networking purposes or convincing potential customers or partners that you are the type of successful person they might want to work with, conspicuous consumption can have its merits.