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Everything written in the article rings true. One effect he didn't mention is that the poisonous confidence-destruction and the lack of learning are self-reinfo

Everything written in the article rings true. One effect he didn't mention is that the poisonous confidence-destruction and the lack of learning are self-reinforcing. It creates a cycle which discourages quitting. I think, though, that the effect only hits ambitious, independent people. Those with less ambition or less independence seem to enjoy themselves, and do well. (There are also a few ambitious, independent folks, who aspire for the top of the corporate ladder and have a good chance of making it. They do well when their skills are matched to the needs of a large organization.) I used to think that when big company employees "settled", it was a gradual process that snuck up on them. Not always. I've actually had a conversation with someone in which they told me about their conscious decision to settle -- that it was better to accept the circumstances and make the best of evenings and weekends. She became upset when I tried to remind her of the higher aspirations she had just the summer before. [I work in a big company. I'm getting out in June when I'll have the funds to not use credit cards.]

fendale 19y ago
Woo, you sound just like me. I recall a conversation in the canteen with a colleague recently where I said something along the lines of "... this place is so mediocre ... there has to be something better ..." and she replied with "well its just a job, you have to work somewhere, there are plenty of places worse". She has clearly decided to settle! I also agree with the less ambitious people doing well - I liken it to Seth Godin's book The Dip - those people are willing to lean into the organisation and just settle for its way. The more ambitious can sometimes see just how wrong things are and lean against it, hence doing badly in the company. If you are going to do well in a big corporation, you have to learn to play by its rules and settle unfortunately ... I haven't done that yet, but its a daily struggle!
- cnu 19y ago
  Most people I know of from college don't even care to look elsewhere for a job. All they wish is to get into some big company and switch jobs every 2 years to another big company. Also for those people, getting into anything small is not good enough to be told among friends.
zinder 19y ago
Regarding Ambitious, Independent people. I tend to agree with you, but there's another class of people that doesn't fit your high ambition/low ambition paradigm. I don't know how to label these people, and they confuse me greatly, because I'm not one of them and don't understand their motivations. These are people for whom ambitions and motivations are unrelated to "career choice" I've met a great many people who work fairly-routine/moderate-pay/low-stress jobs, who have no desire to do work any more mentally taxing, and who profess to "live outside of work." Now, some of these people are just not ambitious or independent. But some really seem to be extremely passionate, ambitious people. Some of these people are the "cause people" -- people that are heavily involved in political campaigns, in "causes," do large amounts of volunteering. They seem to derive their fulfillment from this work, and the paid job is a means to the freedom to pursue these causes. Yet a different class of these people are the "family-focussed." They work, they may volunteer, but they appear to derive their fulfillment from... well, to be blunt, from raising kids and helping/coaxing/celebrating/watching their kids grow and succeed. I'm not suggesting at all that these two other alternatives are in any way "lesser" (or "greater" for that matter) -- nor am I suggesting that other people aren't interested in, or don't do these things. But, to generalize from just one example, (everyone does it -- or at least, I do...) though I don't do much in the way of volunteering or raising of a family just now, even if I do either of these at a future date, I don't think I would ever define myself by these things. I would identify and define myself more by the contributions I make in, for lack of a better name, the financial marketplace. Since this is a forum of "the startup crowd," I imagine that most of you define yourselves similarly? Anyway, I went on so long, I forgot to make my point, which was that some of these people are perfectly happy in a job where they are not expected to be ambitious, so that they can save their energy and ambition for the part of their life that matters to them. I do not understand this, but I have recently come to notice its existence. I thought I'd point it out, since we're talking about ambition and lack thereof.

fendale 19y ago

Woo, you sound just like me. I recall a conversation in the canteen with a colleague recently where I said something along the lines of "... this place is so mediocre ... there has to be something better ..." and she replied with "well its just a job, you have to work somewhere, there are plenty of places worse". She has clearly decided to settle! I also agree with the less ambitious people doing well - I liken it to Seth Godin's book The Dip - those people are willing to lean into the organisation and just settle for its way. The more ambitious can sometimes see just how wrong things are and lean against it, hence doing badly in the company. If you are going to do well in a big corporation, you have to learn to play by its rules and settle unfortunately ... I haven't done that yet, but its a daily struggle!

cnu 19y ago
Most people I know of from college don't even care to look elsewhere for a job. All they wish is to get into some big company and switch jobs every 2 years to another big company. Also for those people, getting into anything small is not good enough to be told among friends.

zinder 19y ago

Regarding Ambitious, Independent people. I tend to agree with you, but there's another class of people that doesn't fit your high ambition/low ambition paradigm. I don't know how to label these people, and they confuse me greatly, because I'm not one of them and don't understand their motivations. These are people for whom ambitions and motivations are unrelated to "career choice" I've met a great many people who work fairly-routine/moderate-pay/low-stress jobs, who have no desire to do work any more mentally taxing, and who profess to "live outside of work." Now, some of these people are just not ambitious or independent. But some really seem to be extremely passionate, ambitious people. Some of these people are the "cause people" -- people that are heavily involved in political campaigns, in "causes," do large amounts of volunteering. They seem to derive their fulfillment from this work, and the paid job is a means to the freedom to pursue these causes. Yet a different class of these people are the "family-focussed." They work, they may volunteer, but they appear to derive their fulfillment from... well, to be blunt, from raising kids and helping/coaxing/celebrating/watching their kids grow and succeed. I'm not suggesting at all that these two other alternatives are in any way "lesser" (or "greater" for that matter) -- nor am I suggesting that other people aren't interested in, or don't do these things. But, to generalize from just one example, (everyone does it -- or at least, I do...) though I don't do much in the way of volunteering or raising of a family just now, even if I do either of these at a future date, I don't think I would ever define myself by these things. I would identify and define myself more by the contributions I make in, for lack of a better name, the financial marketplace. Since this is a forum of "the startup crowd," I imagine that most of you define yourselves similarly? Anyway, I went on so long, I forgot to make my point, which was that some of these people are perfectly happy in a job where they are not expected to be ambitious, so that they can save their energy and ambition for the part of their life that matters to them. I do not understand this, but I have recently come to notice its existence. I thought I'd point it out, since we're talking about ambition and lack thereof.