12 ms·

Suicide of an Uber engineer: Widow blames job stress, racism

94 points by allsunny 9y ago

allsunny 9y ago
And another condemnation of Uber.
- braveo 9y ago
  When it came out what Uber was doing to track Lyft drivers that was kind of the nail in the coffin for me. There's just too much. Companies will always make someone angry, but there's just TOO MUCH. I will never use Uber, and I'll encourage everyone I know to avoid it as well. Do we REALLY want this company getting a monopoly?
  - fstuff 9y ago
    Could you imagine how unethical they would be if they were the only game in town.
NelsonMinar 9y ago
This story is heartbreaking.
Chris2048 9y ago
It's terrible that this young man committed suicide, but it there any evidence that it was Uber's fault? Is the racism claim based purely on lack of hiring diversity? If Thomas was given unforgiving or impossible tasks, why would he refuse to quit?
- kafkaesq 9y ago
  Is there any evidence that it was Uber's fault? There is in the article. That is, if you actually read the article.
  - chicagodev 9y ago
    There is actually zero evidence in the article aside from the deceased's lawyer saying the following: “We think it was stress and harassment induced by his job, between him being one of the few African Americans there, working around the clock and the culture of Uber,” That isn't evidence. That's speculation by the family's lawyer.
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    There isn't in the article. The article is full of suppositions and what-ifs. There wasn't a single thing pointed out unique to Uber that doesn't occur in any other high-stress job. Also the addition of racism really muddies the waters. If you say that everything is due to racism, that term rapidly loses all meaning.
    - kafkaesq 9y ago
      Also the addition of racism really muddies the waters. Given the various factors at play, I would investigate further before offering such a blanket dismissal. But that's just me.
      - jimmywanger 9y ago
        What other factors are there? The article has brought up none. The reasoning of the matter is this: Uber has few black technical employees, one black employee committed suicide, hence racism. Or is there something else that is missing? You realize that the same argument could be made (and has been made) for female employees? <tech companies> have few female technical employees, one female employee complains, hence <systematic sexism, "bro culture">.
        kafkaesq 9y ago
        Uber has few black technical employees, Along with a culture of bro-ishness and clique-iness, hypercompetitiveness and backstabbing, and a sweeping disdain for ethics in general. You forgot those parts.
kafkaesq 9y ago
So after such a tragedy, what does Uber do? They deny the family's benefits claim, of course: Uber denied the benefits claim through its insurance carrier. In California, workers’ compensation usually does not cover psychiatric injuries until after six months of employment. Joseph Thomas had worked slightly less than five months at Uber when he killed himself. But there is an exception to the six-month rule. It doesn’t apply “if the psychiatric injury is caused by a sudden and extraordinary employment condition,” according to California law.
- SamReidHughes 9y ago
  Well naturally. Why would you give free money to people?
  - kafkaesq 9y ago
    There are other factors at play. Like, you know, concern for the next of kin and an expected general sense of remorse, for example.
    - jimmywanger 9y ago
      Remorse for what?
      - kafkaesq 9y ago
        Like, you know -- leaving 2 children without a father, and a widow with a broken heart. That sort of thing.
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        That's implying causation. Two children without a father and a widow with a broken heart happened. Why would anybody want to scramble to assume financial liability for such an incident? Do I feel remorse for people starving in Venezuela? No, as I have done nothing to directly cause the starvation. Nobody's agony should have a claim on your financial resources or your property.
randyrand 9y ago
All uber employees should be charged with murder IMO and serve time in jail. This is unacceptable.
- sctb 9y ago
  No matter what you're responding to, it's not acceptable here to violate the guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
olleromam91 9y ago
This could happen in any profession or culture. Uber are just the ones in the spotlight right now. The real issue here is unfortunately ONCE AGAIN, a lack of mental health awareness and services. A psychiatrist has diagnosed someone with "high anxiety"...why aren't they are being subscribed treatment in the form of therapy or medicine? He went to ask for help, and was told something wasn't going well...let's do something to remedy that! If assistance was in fact prescribed and Thomas denied that it would help him, the fault then is placed on social awareness and acceptance regarding men receiving mental health care. As someone who has gone through my own suicidal thoughts and had therapy and medication literally save my life, this infuriates me to no end.
- taurath 9y ago
  And what happens if you feel you have to leave your job? You lose your insurance, or go on disability and have a target on your back for the next 10 years of your career.
- jxi 9y ago
  It could happen, but there are many factors at Uber that make it much more likely to happen there. Amongst other issues, the piss-poor management there seems to cause all kinds of problems.
chicagodev 9y ago
Despite that this is a heartbreaking story, there's really no evidence to suggest that Uber is responsible for his suicide. We've all had shitty jobs where we felt overworked and perhaps discriminated against, but our actions are our own responsibilities.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
m0llusk 9y ago
Just last night some tech workers were talking about what a friend had said of working at Uber. The culture there allows "toe stepping" so that for example if someone is on vacation it is okay to take over work that had been assigned to them. Also they practice "always on" which means that any time of any day maybe required to meet company goals. These two features alone are damning enough, but when combined with a culture of back stabbing among high level managers the results are atrocious. This cannot end well.
- elvinyung 9y ago
  > if someone is on vacation it is okay to take over work that had been assigned to them I really hope this means it's okay to do that with discussion before the employee goes on vacation. If not, holy crap that really does sound awful.
708145_ 9y ago
How could Uber become such an awful company?
elvinyung 9y ago
> Uber denied the benefits claim through its insurance carrier. That seems like an extremely terrible move, even if Uber might be technically correct. Deciding to do that makes them look awful, and I think that's what matters most, given everything else contributing to their public image right now. It could have been a great opportunity to look magnanimous.

94 points by allsunny 9y ago

allsunny 9y ago

And another condemnation of Uber.

braveo 9y ago
When it came out what Uber was doing to track Lyft drivers that was kind of the nail in the coffin for me. There's just too much. Companies will always make someone angry, but there's just TOO MUCH. I will never use Uber, and I'll encourage everyone I know to avoid it as well. Do we REALLY want this company getting a monopoly?
- fstuff 9y ago
  Could you imagine how unethical they would be if they were the only game in town.

NelsonMinar 9y ago

This story is heartbreaking.

Chris2048 9y ago

It's terrible that this young man committed suicide, but it there any evidence that it was Uber's fault? Is the racism claim based purely on lack of hiring diversity? If Thomas was given unforgiving or impossible tasks, why would he refuse to quit?

kafkaesq 9y ago
Is there any evidence that it was Uber's fault? There is in the article. That is, if you actually read the article.
- chicagodev 9y ago
  There is actually zero evidence in the article aside from the deceased's lawyer saying the following: “We think it was stress and harassment induced by his job, between him being one of the few African Americans there, working around the clock and the culture of Uber,” That isn't evidence. That's speculation by the family's lawyer.
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  There isn't in the article. The article is full of suppositions and what-ifs. There wasn't a single thing pointed out unique to Uber that doesn't occur in any other high-stress job. Also the addition of racism really muddies the waters. If you say that everything is due to racism, that term rapidly loses all meaning.
  - kafkaesq 9y ago
    Also the addition of racism really muddies the waters. Given the various factors at play, I would investigate further before offering such a blanket dismissal. But that's just me.
    - jimmywanger 9y ago
      What other factors are there? The article has brought up none. The reasoning of the matter is this: Uber has few black technical employees, one black employee committed suicide, hence racism. Or is there something else that is missing? You realize that the same argument could be made (and has been made) for female employees? <tech companies> have few female technical employees, one female employee complains, hence <systematic sexism, "bro culture">.
      - kafkaesq 9y ago
        Uber has few black technical employees, Along with a culture of bro-ishness and clique-iness, hypercompetitiveness and backstabbing, and a sweeping disdain for ethics in general. You forgot those parts.

kafkaesq 9y ago

So after such a tragedy, what does Uber do? They deny the family's benefits claim, of course: Uber denied the benefits claim through its insurance carrier. In California, workers’ compensation usually does not cover psychiatric injuries until after six months of employment. Joseph Thomas had worked slightly less than five months at Uber when he killed himself. But there is an exception to the six-month rule. It doesn’t apply “if the psychiatric injury is caused by a sudden and extraordinary employment condition,” according to California law.

SamReidHughes 9y ago
Well naturally. Why would you give free money to people?
- kafkaesq 9y ago
  There are other factors at play. Like, you know, concern for the next of kin and an expected general sense of remorse, for example.
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    Remorse for what?
    - kafkaesq 9y ago
      Like, you know -- leaving 2 children without a father, and a widow with a broken heart. That sort of thing.
      - jimmywanger 9y ago
        That's implying causation. Two children without a father and a widow with a broken heart happened. Why would anybody want to scramble to assume financial liability for such an incident? Do I feel remorse for people starving in Venezuela? No, as I have done nothing to directly cause the starvation. Nobody's agony should have a claim on your financial resources or your property.

randyrand 9y ago

All uber employees should be charged with murder IMO and serve time in jail. This is unacceptable.

sctb 9y ago
No matter what you're responding to, it's not acceptable here to violate the guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

olleromam91 9y ago

This could happen in any profession or culture. Uber are just the ones in the spotlight right now. The real issue here is unfortunately ONCE AGAIN, a lack of mental health awareness and services. A psychiatrist has diagnosed someone with "high anxiety"...why aren't they are being subscribed treatment in the form of therapy or medicine? He went to ask for help, and was told something wasn't going well...let's do something to remedy that! If assistance was in fact prescribed and Thomas denied that it would help him, the fault then is placed on social awareness and acceptance regarding men receiving mental health care. As someone who has gone through my own suicidal thoughts and had therapy and medication literally save my life, this infuriates me to no end.

taurath 9y ago
And what happens if you feel you have to leave your job? You lose your insurance, or go on disability and have a target on your back for the next 10 years of your career.
jxi 9y ago
It could happen, but there are many factors at Uber that make it much more likely to happen there. Amongst other issues, the piss-poor management there seems to cause all kinds of problems.

chicagodev 9y ago

Despite that this is a heartbreaking story, there's really no evidence to suggest that Uber is responsible for his suicide. We've all had shitty jobs where we felt overworked and perhaps discriminated against, but our actions are our own responsibilities.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

m0llusk 9y ago

Just last night some tech workers were talking about what a friend had said of working at Uber. The culture there allows "toe stepping" so that for example if someone is on vacation it is okay to take over work that had been assigned to them. Also they practice "always on" which means that any time of any day maybe required to meet company goals. These two features alone are damning enough, but when combined with a culture of back stabbing among high level managers the results are atrocious. This cannot end well.

elvinyung 9y ago
> if someone is on vacation it is okay to take over work that had been assigned to them I really hope this means it's okay to do that with discussion before the employee goes on vacation. If not, holy crap that really does sound awful.

708145_ 9y ago

How could Uber become such an awful company?

elvinyung 9y ago

> Uber denied the benefits claim through its insurance carrier. That seems like an extremely terrible move, even if Uber might be technically correct. Deciding to do that makes them look awful, and I think that's what matters most, given everything else contributing to their public image right now. It could have been a great opportunity to look magnanimous.