4 ms·

Apparently, remembering gypsies and other groups 'diminishes the memory' of the holocaust because they were just 'political prisoners': http://nypost.com/2009/0

Apparently, remembering gypsies and other groups 'diminishes the memory' of the holocaust because they were just 'political prisoners': http://nypost.com/2009/06/08/hikind-jews-only/ http://nypost.com/2009/06/08/hikind-jews-only/

tome 9y ago
That's not what that article says.
- rcpt 9y ago
  It's in the 3rd paragraph, no?
  - tome 9y ago
    No. It categorically does not say that remembering non-Jewish victims diminishes the memory of the holocaust. It says that commemorating non-Jewish victims at that specific monument diminishes the memory of the holocaust vis-à-vis that specific monument. Anyone who's happy to make the former interpretation needs to look very carefully at their motivations.
    - redsummer 9y ago
      Uh-huh. The same hilarious double think is in evidence in Israel - building a Museum of Tolerance on a Muslim cemetry: http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/visit-jerusalem-s-new-museum-of-tolerance-feel-your-blood-boil.premium-1.434968 http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/visit-j...
      - tome 9y ago
        > Anyone who's happy to make the former interpretation needs to look very carefully at their motivations. ... and I was proved correct in literally the next comment.
        redsummer 9y ago
        In my experience, the blinkers on white South Africans during apartheid and Jewish Israelis seem to be constructed in the same way. In that sense I don't blame Israelis for wanting to build a Museum of Tolerance on a Muslim cemetry - that's just how they have been brought up. Just their culture. It's no wonder Israel supplied apartheid South Africa with nuclear weapons. They had a shared philosophy.
        tome 9y ago
        There's so much wrong here I don't know where to start.
    - duncanawoods 9y ago
      The stated reason does suggest they believe non-Jewish groups are less deserving of remembrance: These people are not in the same category as Jewish people with regards to the Holocaust,” Hikind said following a press conference at the memorial. “It is so vastly different. You cannot compare political prisoners with Jewish victims.” The proviso I would add is that NYP a muck-racking rag that delights in outrage and controversy. I would be very skeptical it is giving a full and fair account of the individual's views. Anyone who's happy to make the former interpretation needs to look very carefully at their motivations. I don't believe the parent is making unfair interpretation of the actual article content. Using that as a source is somewhat suspect but any discussion of anything holocaust, Jewish or Israeli leads to accusations of anti-semitism these days. Its a problem, please be charitable.
      - redsummer 9y ago
        The guy in question - Dov Hikind - seems quite open in his views. He's a follower of the terrorist group Jewish Defense League who has some odd views that @tome will probably be happy to explain to you as misunderstood :) http://gawker.com/5986773/assemblyman-dov-hikind-king-of-one-way-sensitivity-partied-in-blackface-yesterday http://gawker.com/5986773/assemblyman-dov-hikind-king-of-one...
        tome 9y ago
        I certainly repudiate Kahane and the JDL. That just makes your argument even weaker though. If you have to use a member of a fringe extremist group as an example to slander Jews then you're not standing on very firm ground.
        redsummer 9y ago
        I don't know what to say about your prickly confused paranoia. I have no need to 'slander Jews'. If I were to criticise a Christian fundamentalist would I be 'slandering Christianity'? If I were to criticise a Jihadist would I be 'slandering Islam'. Should I be told to shut up? Look, the guy you have supported here is open in his support of Kahane and the JDL. That's just the territory you occupy.
dang 9y ago
This is exactly the kind of direction commenters need not to take in a thread like this. Significantly increasing both inflammation and repetition (of well-trodden pathways) is a ticket to flamewar hell, which is just where you and other commenters ended up. Fortunately this phenomenon is so predictable that we can ask commenters to simply avoid it here. Please don't do it again. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14191321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14191321 and marked it off-topic.

tome 9y ago

That's not what that article says.

rcpt 9y ago
It's in the 3rd paragraph, no?
- tome 9y ago
  No. It categorically does not say that remembering non-Jewish victims diminishes the memory of the holocaust. It says that commemorating non-Jewish victims at that specific monument diminishes the memory of the holocaust vis-à-vis that specific monument. Anyone who's happy to make the former interpretation needs to look very carefully at their motivations.
  - redsummer 9y ago
    Uh-huh. The same hilarious double think is in evidence in Israel - building a Museum of Tolerance on a Muslim cemetry: http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/visit-jerusalem-s-new-museum-of-tolerance-feel-your-blood-boil.premium-1.434968 http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/visit-j...
    - tome 9y ago
      > Anyone who's happy to make the former interpretation needs to look very carefully at their motivations. ... and I was proved correct in literally the next comment.
      - redsummer 9y ago
        In my experience, the blinkers on white South Africans during apartheid and Jewish Israelis seem to be constructed in the same way. In that sense I don't blame Israelis for wanting to build a Museum of Tolerance on a Muslim cemetry - that's just how they have been brought up. Just their culture. It's no wonder Israel supplied apartheid South Africa with nuclear weapons. They had a shared philosophy.
        tome 9y ago
        There's so much wrong here I don't know where to start.
  - duncanawoods 9y ago
    The stated reason does suggest they believe non-Jewish groups are less deserving of remembrance: These people are not in the same category as Jewish people with regards to the Holocaust,” Hikind said following a press conference at the memorial. “It is so vastly different. You cannot compare political prisoners with Jewish victims.” The proviso I would add is that NYP a muck-racking rag that delights in outrage and controversy. I would be very skeptical it is giving a full and fair account of the individual's views. Anyone who's happy to make the former interpretation needs to look very carefully at their motivations. I don't believe the parent is making unfair interpretation of the actual article content. Using that as a source is somewhat suspect but any discussion of anything holocaust, Jewish or Israeli leads to accusations of anti-semitism these days. Its a problem, please be charitable.
    - redsummer 9y ago
      The guy in question - Dov Hikind - seems quite open in his views. He's a follower of the terrorist group Jewish Defense League who has some odd views that @tome will probably be happy to explain to you as misunderstood :) http://gawker.com/5986773/assemblyman-dov-hikind-king-of-one-way-sensitivity-partied-in-blackface-yesterday http://gawker.com/5986773/assemblyman-dov-hikind-king-of-one...
      - tome 9y ago
        I certainly repudiate Kahane and the JDL. That just makes your argument even weaker though. If you have to use a member of a fringe extremist group as an example to slander Jews then you're not standing on very firm ground.
        redsummer 9y ago
        I don't know what to say about your prickly confused paranoia. I have no need to 'slander Jews'. If I were to criticise a Christian fundamentalist would I be 'slandering Christianity'? If I were to criticise a Jihadist would I be 'slandering Islam'. Should I be told to shut up? Look, the guy you have supported here is open in his support of Kahane and the JDL. That's just the territory you occupy.

dang 9y ago

This is exactly the kind of direction commenters need not to take in a thread like this. Significantly increasing both inflammation and repetition (of well-trodden pathways) is a ticket to flamewar hell, which is just where you and other commenters ended up. Fortunately this phenomenon is so predictable that we can ask commenters to simply avoid it here. Please don't do it again. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14191321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14191321 and marked it off-topic.