4 ms·

This is an important story because, in spite of the fact that our techno-industry has been at this for a long time now (decades), we still get companies that th

by mmjaa 10y ago

This is an important story because, in spite of the fact that our techno-industry has been at this for a long time now (decades), we still get companies that think its okay to violate fundamental human rights in the pursuit of profit - and that is why this story is so relevant to the HN crowd. It doesn't matter that Uber did this. Microsoft, Sun, and countless other companies have gotten into trouble for this sort of behaviour in the past. This story is not about Uber. This story is about how poorly the tech industry regards the legislative machinery that gives us all the right to have free access to computers, to do what we like with them, without restriction - and the liabilities of that freedom, when played in a market full of unscrupulous individuals with far, far too much power.

Applejinx 10y ago
There are quite a lot of people who will tell you there is no such thing as rights. There's only power. This is not a new idea: it's always been around (think 'Magna Carta' and who knows how many times, back infinitely into the past). The idea that there is no rights, only power, is as true as we agree it to be. And that's why this debate is still ongoing. In times where it's a very live and relevant debate, power is ascendant and making the argument that rights are old hat. If it wasn't much of a debate because it was self-evident that there are no rights, we'd be in one of those Dark Ages periods of stultification, waiting for civilization to start up again. If it wasn't much of a debate because there is no power… actually, I'm not sure that's ever happened or ever will happen. It'd be an interesting thought experiment, to ask what that would even look like. Presumably that's a picture of bureacracy, but weaponized, meaning the power is on the law-makers and those who bend their ears. As expected, that's the first thing claimed by power, whether it makes sense or not. To power, any bureacracy or law is always weaponized and illegitimate.
- mmjaa 10y ago
  "Rights" are just 'powers' granted to individuals by the groups they compose for the purpose.
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    There's also the concept of natural and inalienable rights, at least theoretically in the US. In practice many of the 'Constitution lovers' among the politicians and authority figures will happily deny many of these natural rights whenever possible and useful to their own ends.
- badosu 10y ago
  Relevant Carlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4
- lostboys67 10y ago
  I would beg to differ the USA thinks there are "rights" outwith power as does the UN
mtanski 10y ago
Legislation when it comes to PII data in the U.S is notoriously weak. Without that it's the only place to prosecute these companies is in the court of public opinion (better then nothing). We have some laws for PII when it comes to health care data. Even those are comically bad... where hospitals, insurers, medical providers routine lose data (paper or electronic) and get away with small fines. On the other hand legitimate research doesn't have access to this data. It's even hard on an opt in basis. On the other hand some industries do a lot of security/compliance theater. You have a bunch of accountants that figure out they can do compliance shake downs (SAS 70, SSAE 16, SOC, ...). A lot of times you're required to have these to be able to do business with other large businesses. Most of the time it's a checkbox more so then any kind of business processes. My wife's old employer worked in a HIPAA required insutry, did all their SAS 70, SSAE 16, SOC, ... Then the next tax season after she left she got a letter in the mail saying that an employee got phished (real dumb phish too) for all their payroll data. My wife got 2 years of credit card monitoring and "please be vigilant this tax season" communication. TL;DR: Laws are weak, enforcement is weak, fines are low.

by mmjaa 10y ago

Applejinx 10y ago

There are quite a lot of people who will tell you there is no such thing as rights. There's only power. This is not a new idea: it's always been around (think 'Magna Carta' and who knows how many times, back infinitely into the past). The idea that there is no rights, only power, is as true as we agree it to be. And that's why this debate is still ongoing. In times where it's a very live and relevant debate, power is ascendant and making the argument that rights are old hat. If it wasn't much of a debate because it was self-evident that there are no rights, we'd be in one of those Dark Ages periods of stultification, waiting for civilization to start up again. If it wasn't much of a debate because there is no power… actually, I'm not sure that's ever happened or ever will happen. It'd be an interesting thought experiment, to ask what that would even look like. Presumably that's a picture of bureacracy, but weaponized, meaning the power is on the law-makers and those who bend their ears. As expected, that's the first thing claimed by power, whether it makes sense or not. To power, any bureacracy or law is always weaponized and illegitimate.

mmjaa 10y ago
"Rights" are just 'powers' granted to individuals by the groups they compose for the purpose.
- wavefunction 10y ago
  There's also the concept of natural and inalienable rights, at least theoretically in the US. In practice many of the 'Constitution lovers' among the politicians and authority figures will happily deny many of these natural rights whenever possible and useful to their own ends.
badosu 10y ago
Relevant Carlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-R8T1SuG4
lostboys67 10y ago
I would beg to differ the USA thinks there are "rights" outwith power as does the UN

mtanski 10y ago

Legislation when it comes to PII data in the U.S is notoriously weak. Without that it's the only place to prosecute these companies is in the court of public opinion (better then nothing). We have some laws for PII when it comes to health care data. Even those are comically bad... where hospitals, insurers, medical providers routine lose data (paper or electronic) and get away with small fines. On the other hand legitimate research doesn't have access to this data. It's even hard on an opt in basis. On the other hand some industries do a lot of security/compliance theater. You have a bunch of accountants that figure out they can do compliance shake downs (SAS 70, SSAE 16, SOC, ...). A lot of times you're required to have these to be able to do business with other large businesses. Most of the time it's a checkbox more so then any kind of business processes. My wife's old employer worked in a HIPAA required insutry, did all their SAS 70, SSAE 16, SOC, ... Then the next tax season after she left she got a letter in the mail saying that an employee got phished (real dumb phish too) for all their payroll data. My wife got 2 years of credit card monitoring and "please be vigilant this tax season" communication. TL;DR: Laws are weak, enforcement is weak, fines are low.