5 ms·

Smarterer/Pluralsight Wants Me to Cease and Desist Taughtful.com

23 points by Theaxiom 9y ago

Today, less than 2 months after launching the beta of my social learning platform, Taughtful (taughtful.com); I received a cease and desist letter from Pluralsight/Smarter stating that Taughtful is too similar to Smarter and that I have willfully stolen their intellectual property. Taughtful is 100% my own code, my own design and my plans extend far beyond the original scope of Smarterer. You can read the entire C&D letter here, which I have already forwarded to my attorney: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B741TFQThWSldVpaR2tEMGVubU0 For those who are not familiar with Smarterer, it was formerly a free website where people could create and take skills tests online. They had an extensive API which allowed integration into services such as eLance, etc. Fast-forward to today, Smarterer.com got bought out by Pluralsight and absorbed into their monolithic learning solution and is no longer publicly accessible. They essentially took this wonderful crowd-sourced learning tool and closed it off, for profit. I have been designing a similar platform for well over a year now and back on March 15th I launched my beta. I have much more plans beyond just crowd-sourced skills testing with machine-learning in the background, but that is where I have started. I have plans to parter with recruiters and organizations so people can automatically apply for jobs by taking skills tests, I plan on exposing a developer API, building in social-networking aspects into the platform so people can teach/learn from each-other, the ability for people to create and charge for courses, etc. I want to disrupt the public education system. If you want to learn more about the future plans, check out https://taughtful.com/about I welcome any comments on this matter, I personally would love to hear any and all feedback, be it positive or negative. Thanks!

1ba9115454 9y ago
- and note many striking similarities between the Website and Pluralsight’s (formerly Smarterer’s) Intellectual Property. - Moreover, given your previous relationship with Smarterer. I suppose it depends on what the laws in the US are over software. I mean all word processors look the same but I don't see C&D letter flying around. However, when you get lawyers involved you start to loose money quickly.
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  The letter is extremely vague, I have a meeting with my attorney on Wednesday regarding this situation. I will post an update as soon as I have one.
  - 1ba9115454 9y ago
    "The letter is extremely vague" Maybe, but it looks like they figured out you had an account with them and they have a clause in their terms about intellectual property. If your screens look similar they will try to hold you to that agreement. It doesn't look good. At this stage you can back out with no costs, I suspect if you move forward they will try to get back their legal fees.
    - Theaxiom 9y ago
      That's like saying that if Mark Zuckerberg had a MySpace account that they could sue him for creating Facebook. No-where in the terms of service does it say anything about creating a similar service, even my attorney agrees that there is no basis there. "They suggest that your previous association with them gave them rights in certain intellectual property (presumably, copyright and/or patent) which you are using in your website. If your code is wholly original, they may claim copying if the design or approach is derived from a prior work they (or their predecessor in interest) created. However, that does not extend to the concept or ideas."
      - wgj 9y ago
        The C&D indicates you had a developer account with Smarterer. That seems significantly different from Mark Zuckerberg having a MySpace account.
        Theaxiom 9y ago
        I never had a developer account with Smarterer. They shut that down before I could ever apply.
levimaes 9y ago
I'm not familiar with smarterer, and I'm just as unfamiliar with intellectual property law, which leads me to ask you, is there any way, process or resource for you or other aspiring web designers to evaluate or design (or reevaluate or redesign, maybe in your case) a web-software product to determine if and how it's distinctly different enough from a competing product(s) to at least tentatively be considered original. Basically, "How could we ever determine when or where a product or its features or designs within cross from 'original', into 'infringed'?"
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  I'm not sure, I know Apple has both successfully and unsuccessfully litigated such cases.
tmaly 9y ago
Do they have any patents on this technology? Best to speak with a lawyer. How much traction do you have with your site?
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  I do not currently have much traction with my site, but it is something I have been working on for a very long time. This is a passion of mine and I think their claim is completely baseless.
Spoom 9y ago
Can you withstand an ongoing, drawn-out, multi-year legal battle with a very well-funded corporate legal team? Their legal claim appears to be very weak (based entirely on their terms of service) but they can almost certainly outspend and outlast you.
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  Yeah, that's my worry. I am already dealing with another baseless IP lawsuit, however in that case I am counter-suing.
brudgers 9y ago
I am not an attorney. My advice is to not say anything in public forums like this until you have talked to one competent in this area. Sure it sucks. That's business. Good luck.
codegeek 9y ago
"...Your previous relationship with Smarterer...." What was your previous relationship with Smarterer ? Can you clarify ?
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  I signed up on their site at some point to take skills tests.
jakobegger 9y ago
I have no legal advise, but I just wanted to say that I think "Taughtful" is an awesome name! (Also, the "weapons & combat" category is a turn-off --- I wouldn't register on a site that seems to cater to gun enthusiasts.)
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  Thanks for the compliment regarding the name! As far as the concern you brought up, there are other weapons besides guns; ones more sophisticated, such as swords, nunchucks, etc; also, martial arts and other combat techniques are taught on a regular basis, all around the world, to and by people in all walks of life. It is my duty not to hold any biases, nor enforce any unreasonable censorships regarding the education process. In case you didn't notice, the category picture does not contain any guns in it at all, those are 2 foils crossing, they are used in fencing which is a highly regarded combat sport. Regardless, you are welcome to your beliefs as they are your own and I will not attempt to dissuade you.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
dmitripopov 9y ago
"I have been designing a similar platform" - not a good idea to write this on a public forum, they will definitely use this phrase against you in court.
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  Is that illegal? I don't think so.
world2jsj 9y ago
I don't have any legal advice, but I'm interested in how this plays out. Many of us are probably working on a side project that, on some level, resembles an existing product. Perhaps you could capitalize on this situation.
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  Certainly, I will definitely keep you guys updated. Today I met with my attorney, he is sending an initial "We received your shot over the bow" letter. Next week we are going to draft up and send over a formal response requesting the specific alleged violations of their IP.
telebone_man 9y ago
This doesn't seem too serious, and I would treat it as such. Relax. Take a deep breath! For example, they say "the potentially infringing or misappropriated content available on [your] Website". Keyword there - 'potentially'. Earlier on in the letter, they say your content 'may' infringe on theirs. It seems their motivation for contacting you is because you expressed some displeasure in the recent acquisition and that this has motivated you to steal their IP and become a competitor. Whilst its fair for this to motivate you to become a competitor, it isn't fair to assume you would steal their IP in order to do so. "...the recent acquisition by Pluralsight of Smarterer and your displeasure at the subsequent change in services and products offered by Smarterer, the extent and context of your activities establish that any infringement or misappropriation is willful..." They have only asked to remove infringing content - not to shut down. "rights. Pluralsight is hopeful that the similarities between the Website and Pluralsight’s Intellectual Property were inadvertent and that you were unaware of the obligations placed on you by agreeing to Smarterer’s Terms and Conditions. Under the circumstances, Pluralsight would like to resolve this matter amicably." Therefore, I would politely invite them to clarify which of your content they believe infringes on their IP, and make sure you inform them that by inviting them to clarify what content is infringing on their IP, that you aren't admitting that it is indeed infringing.
- Theaxiom 9y ago
  Thank you, that is exactly what my attorney and I are doing. I share the exact same sentiment. :)

23 points by Theaxiom 9y ago

1ba9115454 9y ago

- and note many striking similarities between the Website and Pluralsight’s (formerly Smarterer’s) Intellectual Property. - Moreover, given your previous relationship with Smarterer. I suppose it depends on what the laws in the US are over software. I mean all word processors look the same but I don't see C&D letter flying around. However, when you get lawyers involved you start to loose money quickly.

Theaxiom 9y ago
The letter is extremely vague, I have a meeting with my attorney on Wednesday regarding this situation. I will post an update as soon as I have one.
- 1ba9115454 9y ago
  "The letter is extremely vague" Maybe, but it looks like they figured out you had an account with them and they have a clause in their terms about intellectual property. If your screens look similar they will try to hold you to that agreement. It doesn't look good. At this stage you can back out with no costs, I suspect if you move forward they will try to get back their legal fees.
  - Theaxiom 9y ago
    That's like saying that if Mark Zuckerberg had a MySpace account that they could sue him for creating Facebook. No-where in the terms of service does it say anything about creating a similar service, even my attorney agrees that there is no basis there. "They suggest that your previous association with them gave them rights in certain intellectual property (presumably, copyright and/or patent) which you are using in your website. If your code is wholly original, they may claim copying if the design or approach is derived from a prior work they (or their predecessor in interest) created. However, that does not extend to the concept or ideas."
    - wgj 9y ago
      The C&D indicates you had a developer account with Smarterer. That seems significantly different from Mark Zuckerberg having a MySpace account.
      - Theaxiom 9y ago
        I never had a developer account with Smarterer. They shut that down before I could ever apply.

levimaes 9y ago

I'm not familiar with smarterer, and I'm just as unfamiliar with intellectual property law, which leads me to ask you, is there any way, process or resource for you or other aspiring web designers to evaluate or design (or reevaluate or redesign, maybe in your case) a web-software product to determine if and how it's distinctly different enough from a competing product(s) to at least tentatively be considered original. Basically, "How could we ever determine when or where a product or its features or designs within cross from 'original', into 'infringed'?"

Theaxiom 9y ago
I'm not sure, I know Apple has both successfully and unsuccessfully litigated such cases.

tmaly 9y ago

Do they have any patents on this technology? Best to speak with a lawyer. How much traction do you have with your site?

Theaxiom 9y ago
I do not currently have much traction with my site, but it is something I have been working on for a very long time. This is a passion of mine and I think their claim is completely baseless.

Spoom 9y ago

Can you withstand an ongoing, drawn-out, multi-year legal battle with a very well-funded corporate legal team? Their legal claim appears to be very weak (based entirely on their terms of service) but they can almost certainly outspend and outlast you.

Theaxiom 9y ago
Yeah, that's my worry. I am already dealing with another baseless IP lawsuit, however in that case I am counter-suing.

brudgers 9y ago

I am not an attorney. My advice is to not say anything in public forums like this until you have talked to one competent in this area. Sure it sucks. That's business. Good luck.

codegeek 9y ago

"...Your previous relationship with Smarterer...." What was your previous relationship with Smarterer ? Can you clarify ?

Theaxiom 9y ago
I signed up on their site at some point to take skills tests.

jakobegger 9y ago

I have no legal advise, but I just wanted to say that I think "Taughtful" is an awesome name! (Also, the "weapons & combat" category is a turn-off --- I wouldn't register on a site that seems to cater to gun enthusiasts.)

Theaxiom 9y ago
Thanks for the compliment regarding the name! As far as the concern you brought up, there are other weapons besides guns; ones more sophisticated, such as swords, nunchucks, etc; also, martial arts and other combat techniques are taught on a regular basis, all around the world, to and by people in all walks of life. It is my duty not to hold any biases, nor enforce any unreasonable censorships regarding the education process. In case you didn't notice, the category picture does not contain any guns in it at all, those are 2 foils crossing, they are used in fencing which is a highly regarded combat sport. Regardless, you are welcome to your beliefs as they are your own and I will not attempt to dissuade you.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

dmitripopov 9y ago

"I have been designing a similar platform" - not a good idea to write this on a public forum, they will definitely use this phrase against you in court.

Theaxiom 9y ago
Is that illegal? I don't think so.

world2jsj 9y ago

I don't have any legal advice, but I'm interested in how this plays out. Many of us are probably working on a side project that, on some level, resembles an existing product. Perhaps you could capitalize on this situation.

Theaxiom 9y ago
Certainly, I will definitely keep you guys updated. Today I met with my attorney, he is sending an initial "We received your shot over the bow" letter. Next week we are going to draft up and send over a formal response requesting the specific alleged violations of their IP.

telebone_man 9y ago

This doesn't seem too serious, and I would treat it as such. Relax. Take a deep breath! For example, they say "the potentially infringing or misappropriated content available on [your] Website". Keyword there - 'potentially'. Earlier on in the letter, they say your content 'may' infringe on theirs. It seems their motivation for contacting you is because you expressed some displeasure in the recent acquisition and that this has motivated you to steal their IP and become a competitor. Whilst its fair for this to motivate you to become a competitor, it isn't fair to assume you would steal their IP in order to do so. "...the recent acquisition by Pluralsight of Smarterer and your displeasure at the subsequent change in services and products offered by Smarterer, the extent and context of your activities establish that any infringement or misappropriation is willful..." They have only asked to remove infringing content - not to shut down. "rights. Pluralsight is hopeful that the similarities between the Website and Pluralsight’s Intellectual Property were inadvertent and that you were unaware of the obligations placed on you by agreeing to Smarterer’s Terms and Conditions. Under the circumstances, Pluralsight would like to resolve this matter amicably." Therefore, I would politely invite them to clarify which of your content they believe infringes on their IP, and make sure you inform them that by inviting them to clarify what content is infringing on their IP, that you aren't admitting that it is indeed infringing.

Theaxiom 9y ago
Thank you, that is exactly what my attorney and I are doing. I share the exact same sentiment. :)