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> Why I said you were moving the goalposts I wasn't moving the goalposts. I was pointing out that you were trying to argue for an untenable solution to a probl

by eridius 10y ago

> Why I said you were moving the goalposts I wasn't moving the goalposts. I was pointing out that you were trying to argue for an untenable solution to a problem without actually having evidence that that was the real problem in the first place.

jacquesm 10y ago
Look, the manual of the car details that failure mode, it was predicted this could happen, it is proven (by the manufacturer, in the instruction manual) that that failure mode exists and the people involved in the accidents testimony corroborates that the button was not working. If you want to bring in deformation of the frame to the point where the doors do not open into play then I think you should provide the evidence, everything else points to the simplest solution: electrical system failure. And trust me, you want that electrical system off, even if it is only the 12V battery it could turn a simple accident into a very bad one in a hurry. 12V batteries are more than capable of turning a bunch of wiring into a nice little fire starter. I've seen this up close and it's not pretty. Note that Tesla would be absolutely horrified to learn that this accident did not allow the rear doors to be opened mechanically because they were jammed as that would indicate a structural un-soundness of their chassis design. Note that EURO NCAP makes fairly explicit mention of whether or not doors can be opened after an accident and that that passenger compartment deformation is a huge factor in the rating a car gets. Electrical problem + making a nice handle on the door for emergency release: fixable. Rear doors jammed after mild front impact -> back to the chassis drawing board, massive recall.
- eridius 10y ago
  I'm not saying that you're wrong in believing that the cause was likely due to power failure. My point was that you didn't actually know that for a fact (and hadn't even made an argument for it being power failure, you simply assumed it without explanation). You're accusing me of moving the goalposts simply because I challenged an assumption you made.

by eridius 10y ago

jacquesm 10y ago

Look, the manual of the car details that failure mode, it was predicted this could happen, it is proven (by the manufacturer, in the instruction manual) that that failure mode exists and the people involved in the accidents testimony corroborates that the button was not working. If you want to bring in deformation of the frame to the point where the doors do not open into play then I think you should provide the evidence, everything else points to the simplest solution: electrical system failure. And trust me, you want that electrical system off, even if it is only the 12V battery it could turn a simple accident into a very bad one in a hurry. 12V batteries are more than capable of turning a bunch of wiring into a nice little fire starter. I've seen this up close and it's not pretty. Note that Tesla would be absolutely horrified to learn that this accident did not allow the rear doors to be opened mechanically because they were jammed as that would indicate a structural un-soundness of their chassis design. Note that EURO NCAP makes fairly explicit mention of whether or not doors can be opened after an accident and that that passenger compartment deformation is a huge factor in the rating a car gets. Electrical problem + making a nice handle on the door for emergency release: fixable. Rear doors jammed after mild front impact -> back to the chassis drawing board, massive recall.

eridius 10y ago
I'm not saying that you're wrong in believing that the cause was likely due to power failure. My point was that you didn't actually know that for a fact (and hadn't even made an argument for it being power failure, you simply assumed it without explanation). You're accusing me of moving the goalposts simply because I challenged an assumption you made.