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There is something weird about the tactics of Uber execs. I don't think it's all an ethics failure. A lot of the lying and cheating they do seems like an obje

There is something weird about the tactics of Uber execs. I don't think it's all an ethics failure. A lot of the lying and cheating they do seems like an objectively poor risk/reward proposition and I think many companies would not even get to the ethics question because they would stop when realizing the ideas are stupid when you add up the negatives. Stealing Google's autonomous auto IP could be a crime that actually moves the needle for the company (if it turns out they are guilty), so I guess they at least had significant upside with that one.

Spooky23 10y ago
It's not weird at all. It looks pretty obviously like a pump and dump scheme. This behavior is fraud, and i bet the juiciest stuff is yet to come. I'm sure the criminal complaint coming from some US Attorney will reveal that somebody was cashing out in private markets. This is no different than a boiler room.
- mvindahl 10y ago
  Excellent point. I, too, had been wondering about Uber's priorities. Realizing that the stock valuation at the time of IPO is their only guiding metric has made the pieces fall into place for me.
- Applejinx 10y ago
  I don't agree with that. I think it's related to the fundamental nature of speculative capitalism. This is Uber 'virtue signaling'. With regard to stock market valuation, what humans might consider values is reversed. Stock market speculators think (or are designed to think, in the case of software agents) like sharks, not community members or citizens or team members. The equation is 'feed or die' and value is intentionally the only factor. The common denominator of all these Uber behaviors is this: aggressive or even psychotic competitiveness, beyond any conceivable rule or law. w.r.t their stock valuation this is virtue signaling. For this behavior not to benefit them, they have to not only LOSE the lawsuit in question but also have it damage them more than they gained in 'appearance of psychotic competitiveness'. That's possible, but it's really important to understand the virtue signalling aspect. If the behavior persuades a bunch of amoral stock speculators that Uber is their kind of company it can directly translate into capital valuation that can in turn be spent on lawyers for trying to win the legal cases. And since the value proposition here is establishing a giant multinational corporation that ignores any and all laws, documenting additional laws or rules broken only underscores the value proposition. Virtue signalling… in Hell. (literally!)
  - csomar 10y ago
    I don't think you understand the OP. Let's say I'm an investor with specific moral values. I'd accept that Uber does "anything" (from minors privacy intrusions to real criminal activity) to increase its market cap. What the OP suggests is that the risk/reward ratio for such activities is high. The whole point of doing these activities is that they have a great reward with a small risk of being caught. If the risk of getting caught is high, and the reward is low then what's the point of doing such activities.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- jackgolding 10y ago
  Have you got any other example companies that have behaved like this? (case studies etc)
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Enron and Global Crossing are great examples in the corporate world in different ways. In politics, former NYS Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver is a great example. Very few companies or things are that unique in fundamental ways. When everyone accepts that the norms, rules, or laws don't apply to someone or something, people are temporarily accepting that those things are being broken. There is always a reckoning. Look in this very thread. A poster says they disagree with my position, because Uber is a unique animal that is "psychotically competitve". WTF does that mean? A: Uber thinks that no rules apply to them.

Spooky23 10y ago

It's not weird at all. It looks pretty obviously like a pump and dump scheme. This behavior is fraud, and i bet the juiciest stuff is yet to come. I'm sure the criminal complaint coming from some US Attorney will reveal that somebody was cashing out in private markets. This is no different than a boiler room.

mvindahl 10y ago
Excellent point. I, too, had been wondering about Uber's priorities. Realizing that the stock valuation at the time of IPO is their only guiding metric has made the pieces fall into place for me.
Applejinx 10y ago
I don't agree with that. I think it's related to the fundamental nature of speculative capitalism. This is Uber 'virtue signaling'. With regard to stock market valuation, what humans might consider values is reversed. Stock market speculators think (or are designed to think, in the case of software agents) like sharks, not community members or citizens or team members. The equation is 'feed or die' and value is intentionally the only factor. The common denominator of all these Uber behaviors is this: aggressive or even psychotic competitiveness, beyond any conceivable rule or law. w.r.t their stock valuation this is virtue signaling. For this behavior not to benefit them, they have to not only LOSE the lawsuit in question but also have it damage them more than they gained in 'appearance of psychotic competitiveness'. That's possible, but it's really important to understand the virtue signalling aspect. If the behavior persuades a bunch of amoral stock speculators that Uber is their kind of company it can directly translate into capital valuation that can in turn be spent on lawyers for trying to win the legal cases. And since the value proposition here is establishing a giant multinational corporation that ignores any and all laws, documenting additional laws or rules broken only underscores the value proposition. Virtue signalling… in Hell. (literally!)
- csomar 10y ago
  I don't think you understand the OP. Let's say I'm an investor with specific moral values. I'd accept that Uber does "anything" (from minors privacy intrusions to real criminal activity) to increase its market cap. What the OP suggests is that the risk/reward ratio for such activities is high. The whole point of doing these activities is that they have a great reward with a small risk of being caught. If the risk of getting caught is high, and the reward is low then what's the point of doing such activities.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
jackgolding 10y ago
Have you got any other example companies that have behaved like this? (case studies etc)
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Enron and Global Crossing are great examples in the corporate world in different ways. In politics, former NYS Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver is a great example. Very few companies or things are that unique in fundamental ways. When everyone accepts that the norms, rules, or laws don't apply to someone or something, people are temporarily accepting that those things are being broken. There is always a reckoning. Look in this very thread. A poster says they disagree with my position, because Uber is a unique animal that is "psychotically competitve". WTF does that mean? A: Uber thinks that no rules apply to them.