5 ms·

What are you going to do, whip out your handgun and start taking down 16 year olds? Your iPhone 7 is totally worth a teen's life - or hell, 4 or 5 of them - esp

What are you going to do, whip out your handgun and start taking down 16 year olds? Your iPhone 7 is totally worth a teen's life - or hell, 4 or 5 of them - especially if they're black, right? One would think you Trump voters would have gotten a clue by now.

jraines 10y ago
I didn't vote for Trump and have never owned a handgun. It's interesting that you go straight to tarring me as a racist for merely speculating on what I find to be an amusing hypothetical application of California's gun law and the 9th's circuit's language in the Peruta case that affects it.
- russellbeattie 10y ago
  Sorry. I jumped to conclusions and kneejerked. That said, the crazy-ass people out there who might read your comment and think, Pizza-gate style, that they now have a reason to ride BART packing heat makes me think you could have phrased your "amusing" hypothetical better, no?
Altay- 10y ago
Do people not have a right to defend themselves? You just want to wait around as you're robbed? How about you save me some time and just paypal me $800? Cuck.
- sctb 10y ago
  We've banned this account.
jumpman_miya 10y ago
Yes, that is correct. If you try to rob me and I'm scared for my life, it will cost you yours. Sorry.
- russellbeattie 10y ago
  Makes sense, the vast majority of gun owners are cowards like yourself.
  - grzm 10y ago
    No matter how egregious a comment, it's never appropriate to respond uncivilly like this on HN. On contentious topics in particular, it's even more important to practice restraint. If this isn't something you're willing to do, please just don't comment.
  - jumpman_miya 10y ago
    I honestly am sorry that I see that as my last resort when cornered. I don't want people to get hurt, but most importantly I don't want to get hurt over some unwritten honor code that gets you killed.
fiter 10y ago
I would be less likely to rob someone if I thought I would get killed. Maybe that's what the parent poster was getting at.
jimmyk 10y ago
Your iPhone 7 is totally worth a teen's life - or hell, 4 or 5 of them - especially if they're black, right? On the other hand, they're threatening the lives of random innocent people over something as trivial as a phone, so why should we value their lives particularly highly?
- owebmaster 10y ago
  The same can be said about the young richies driving drunk. By your reasoning, we should give less value to their lives.
  - jimmyk 10y ago
    young richies driving drunk Why are you singling out rich people that drive drunk? By your reasoning, we should give less value to their lives. How might we act on that lower valuation? We might demonstrate that we don't value a mugger's life very highly by shooting him in the act. How would we demonstrate that we don't value a drunk driver's life very highly? Shoot the car with a rocket launcher?
    - owebmaster 10y ago
      > Why are you singling out rich people that drive drunk? Because they're threatening the lives of random innocent people over something as trivial as a their easiness to avoid problems with the law. > How would we demonstrate that we don't value a drunk driver's life very highly? Putting them on jail the same way we do with people that steal iphones. I mean Literally the same way, with a lot of punches and armlocks.
      - jimmyk 10y ago
        Because they're threatening the lives of random innocent people over something as trivial as a their easiness to avoid problems with the law. You're suggesting that rich people commonly drive drunk solely because they get some kind of thrill out of endangering the lives of innocent people and being able to get out of the consequences more easily than other people? Putting them on jail the same way we do with people that steal iphones. I mean Literally the same way, with a lot of punches and armlocks. We're not talking about what happens to them after they no longer pose a threat to innocent people. The purpose of shooting a mugger is not to punish the mugger, it's to prevent harm from coming to you.
loco5niner 10y ago
People have a right to defend themselves. People don't have a right to threaten the safety of others in order to deprive them of their personal property. Of course a phone is not worth a life. That is not what this is about.
rdtsc 10y ago
> One would think you Trump voters would have gotten a clue by now. How do you know GP voted for Trump? Why jump to that conclusion and why is that relevant in this case? Gary Johnson had just as a "liberal" gun control agenda as Trump perhaps... That's the interesting thing there. I mentioned the other day about how irrationality is getting out of hand. It seems like people try too hard, go overboard and then hurt their own cause. "Everyone I don't like is a Trump supporter" is not a great way to win arguments or advance your agenda. It seems cathartic, and that's nice, but that's about it. After that is just discredits your argument.
Mizza 10y ago
To anybody outside of California who is baffled by this comment - yes, this is actually how rich white liberals there actually think. When you have such stark financial and class inequality in a dense urban environment like the bay, being mugged of your iPhone occasionally is literally seen as a kind of moral tax that you pay for your gentrifying presence. To defend yourself from it would be politically incorrect, both individually to the "victim" of your self-defense, and to your class as a whole, as you should essentially accept the mugging as a tax on your privileged position in the cultural landscape. I know many tech workers who live/lived in Oakland who have been mugged (including pistol-whippings), who essentially just accepted it. Some did not even report it to the police, as in their world-view, to do so would be to enlisting an inherently oppressive, violent and racist force.
- jmspring 10y ago
  It is interesting, having lived in the Bay Area pretty much my entire life, spending more time up in what one might call "red country" -- rural Northern Sierra Nevada mountains (still in CA) -- the attitudes around conceal carry (and firearms in general) is significantly different.
- russellbeattie 10y ago
  I'm quite sure that the only one baffled is you. An iPhone is not worth a life. Robbery happens, and killing, or threatening to kill children to prevent it is wrong. This the moral decision, not a PC one. Seriously, how do selfish, cowardly, sociopaths like yourself continue to operate in this world. The last people on Earth thst should be given weapons are people like you.
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    An iPhone is not worth a life. That's the robber's call to make, not yours.
  - Mizza 10y ago
    Again, this perfectly illustrates the attitude of white Californian liberals. I didn't once advocate for, or even once mention, guns in this situation (obviously shooting at a crowd of people on a busy train is an absolutely terrible idea for a whopping number of reasons) - but now I - a person you have never interacted with previously - am a "selfish, cowardly sociopath" for simply explaining the attitude that accepts the fact that, as you put it, "robbery happens", that it is better to let 50 teenage gang members assault and rob a train full of passengers than to threaten a single one of them. In fact, I never even actually disagreed with you! I'm just trying to explain to any other Europeans reading this the context of how your comments could possibly make sense, because outside of the Bay Area bubble, they seem quite shockingly absurd.
thescribe 10y ago
Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that the assailants are black, that is an assumption on your part. I'd take one dude with an iPhone over an arbitrary number of people who premeditate assault and theft.
sctb 10y ago
Heated topics absolutely don't give us permission to spark flamewars like this—we need to do better on this site. We detached this flagged subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14188392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14188392.

jraines 10y ago

I didn't vote for Trump and have never owned a handgun. It's interesting that you go straight to tarring me as a racist for merely speculating on what I find to be an amusing hypothetical application of California's gun law and the 9th's circuit's language in the Peruta case that affects it.

russellbeattie 10y ago
Sorry. I jumped to conclusions and kneejerked. That said, the crazy-ass people out there who might read your comment and think, Pizza-gate style, that they now have a reason to ride BART packing heat makes me think you could have phrased your "amusing" hypothetical better, no?

Altay- 10y ago

Do people not have a right to defend themselves? You just want to wait around as you're robbed? How about you save me some time and just paypal me $800? Cuck.

sctb 10y ago
We've banned this account.

jumpman_miya 10y ago

Yes, that is correct. If you try to rob me and I'm scared for my life, it will cost you yours. Sorry.

russellbeattie 10y ago
Makes sense, the vast majority of gun owners are cowards like yourself.
- grzm 10y ago
  No matter how egregious a comment, it's never appropriate to respond uncivilly like this on HN. On contentious topics in particular, it's even more important to practice restraint. If this isn't something you're willing to do, please just don't comment.
- jumpman_miya 10y ago
  I honestly am sorry that I see that as my last resort when cornered. I don't want people to get hurt, but most importantly I don't want to get hurt over some unwritten honor code that gets you killed.

fiter 10y ago

I would be less likely to rob someone if I thought I would get killed. Maybe that's what the parent poster was getting at.

jimmyk 10y ago

Your iPhone 7 is totally worth a teen's life - or hell, 4 or 5 of them - especially if they're black, right? On the other hand, they're threatening the lives of random innocent people over something as trivial as a phone, so why should we value their lives particularly highly?

owebmaster 10y ago
The same can be said about the young richies driving drunk. By your reasoning, we should give less value to their lives.
- jimmyk 10y ago
  young richies driving drunk Why are you singling out rich people that drive drunk? By your reasoning, we should give less value to their lives. How might we act on that lower valuation? We might demonstrate that we don't value a mugger's life very highly by shooting him in the act. How would we demonstrate that we don't value a drunk driver's life very highly? Shoot the car with a rocket launcher?
  - owebmaster 10y ago
    > Why are you singling out rich people that drive drunk? Because they're threatening the lives of random innocent people over something as trivial as a their easiness to avoid problems with the law. > How would we demonstrate that we don't value a drunk driver's life very highly? Putting them on jail the same way we do with people that steal iphones. I mean Literally the same way, with a lot of punches and armlocks.
    - jimmyk 10y ago
      Because they're threatening the lives of random innocent people over something as trivial as a their easiness to avoid problems with the law. You're suggesting that rich people commonly drive drunk solely because they get some kind of thrill out of endangering the lives of innocent people and being able to get out of the consequences more easily than other people? Putting them on jail the same way we do with people that steal iphones. I mean Literally the same way, with a lot of punches and armlocks. We're not talking about what happens to them after they no longer pose a threat to innocent people. The purpose of shooting a mugger is not to punish the mugger, it's to prevent harm from coming to you.

loco5niner 10y ago

People have a right to defend themselves. People don't have a right to threaten the safety of others in order to deprive them of their personal property. Of course a phone is not worth a life. That is not what this is about.

rdtsc 10y ago

> One would think you Trump voters would have gotten a clue by now. How do you know GP voted for Trump? Why jump to that conclusion and why is that relevant in this case? Gary Johnson had just as a "liberal" gun control agenda as Trump perhaps... That's the interesting thing there. I mentioned the other day about how irrationality is getting out of hand. It seems like people try too hard, go overboard and then hurt their own cause. "Everyone I don't like is a Trump supporter" is not a great way to win arguments or advance your agenda. It seems cathartic, and that's nice, but that's about it. After that is just discredits your argument.

Mizza 10y ago

To anybody outside of California who is baffled by this comment - yes, this is actually how rich white liberals there actually think. When you have such stark financial and class inequality in a dense urban environment like the bay, being mugged of your iPhone occasionally is literally seen as a kind of moral tax that you pay for your gentrifying presence. To defend yourself from it would be politically incorrect, both individually to the "victim" of your self-defense, and to your class as a whole, as you should essentially accept the mugging as a tax on your privileged position in the cultural landscape. I know many tech workers who live/lived in Oakland who have been mugged (including pistol-whippings), who essentially just accepted it. Some did not even report it to the police, as in their world-view, to do so would be to enlisting an inherently oppressive, violent and racist force.

jmspring 10y ago
It is interesting, having lived in the Bay Area pretty much my entire life, spending more time up in what one might call "red country" -- rural Northern Sierra Nevada mountains (still in CA) -- the attitudes around conceal carry (and firearms in general) is significantly different.
russellbeattie 10y ago
I'm quite sure that the only one baffled is you. An iPhone is not worth a life. Robbery happens, and killing, or threatening to kill children to prevent it is wrong. This the moral decision, not a PC one. Seriously, how do selfish, cowardly, sociopaths like yourself continue to operate in this world. The last people on Earth thst should be given weapons are people like you.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  An iPhone is not worth a life. That's the robber's call to make, not yours.
- Mizza 10y ago
  Again, this perfectly illustrates the attitude of white Californian liberals. I didn't once advocate for, or even once mention, guns in this situation (obviously shooting at a crowd of people on a busy train is an absolutely terrible idea for a whopping number of reasons) - but now I - a person you have never interacted with previously - am a "selfish, cowardly sociopath" for simply explaining the attitude that accepts the fact that, as you put it, "robbery happens", that it is better to let 50 teenage gang members assault and rob a train full of passengers than to threaten a single one of them. In fact, I never even actually disagreed with you! I'm just trying to explain to any other Europeans reading this the context of how your comments could possibly make sense, because outside of the Bay Area bubble, they seem quite shockingly absurd.

thescribe 10y ago

Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that the assailants are black, that is an assumption on your part. I'd take one dude with an iPhone over an arbitrary number of people who premeditate assault and theft.

sctb 10y ago

Heated topics absolutely don't give us permission to spark flamewars like this—we need to do better on this site. We detached this flagged subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14188392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14188392.