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I agree. But just because education is the best defense doesn't mean it should be the only defense. Guns are literally the very last resort to prevent tyranny a

by ythn 9y ago

I agree. But just because education is the best defense doesn't mean it should be the only defense. Guns are literally the very last resort to prevent tyranny after all other safeguards have failed.

oblio 9y ago
They come with a ton of downsides... I'm European, I don't think that the benefits outweigh the downsides. If my country is at the point where there's enough popular support for a tyrannical government to take root, things are already lost. In 1989 in Romania not even our generals had the guts to shoot our own citizens, despite being drilled for it during 40 years of very oppressive Communist dictatorships. Why? Because they knew that the government didn't really have popular support. Your Turkish example isn't fully representative since Turkey hasn't ever had a stable democratic regime for more than ~15 years. Even Atatürk, who was a great man in most regards, was more of a benevolent dictator for life than a fully democratic figure head.
- ythn 9y ago
  Guns come with downsides, true. But so do a lot of freedoms. Alcohol? Do the benefits of alcohol outweigh the downsides? I would argue alcohol has an even worse impact on society than guns. Of course you'll say "yes, but regulating alcohol is impossible, at least regulating guns is feasible". Yet, we can sleep at night knowing our favorite vice kills tens of thousands every year in the US alone (not to mention the mental health issues and child abuse that stems from it...). Education is effective. If education is an effective tool to combat alcohol abuse, it can be an effective tool to combat gun abuse as well. Europe should want guns even more than America. It wasn't that long ago that Germany was blitzkrieging across borders and the citizens were defenseless. It would have never worked in America because as soon as the Germans drove over the border, millions of American civilians (not soldiers) would be pulling out their family rifles and gunning down the German soldiers from every side.

by ythn 9y ago

I agree. But just because education is the best defense doesn't mean it should be the only defense. Guns are literally the very last resort to prevent tyranny after all other safeguards have failed.

oblio 9y ago

They come with a ton of downsides... I'm European, I don't think that the benefits outweigh the downsides. If my country is at the point where there's enough popular support for a tyrannical government to take root, things are already lost. In 1989 in Romania not even our generals had the guts to shoot our own citizens, despite being drilled for it during 40 years of very oppressive Communist dictatorships. Why? Because they knew that the government didn't really have popular support. Your Turkish example isn't fully representative since Turkey hasn't ever had a stable democratic regime for more than ~15 years. Even Atatürk, who was a great man in most regards, was more of a benevolent dictator for life than a fully democratic figure head.

ythn 9y ago
Guns come with downsides, true. But so do a lot of freedoms. Alcohol? Do the benefits of alcohol outweigh the downsides? I would argue alcohol has an even worse impact on society than guns. Of course you'll say "yes, but regulating alcohol is impossible, at least regulating guns is feasible". Yet, we can sleep at night knowing our favorite vice kills tens of thousands every year in the US alone (not to mention the mental health issues and child abuse that stems from it...). Education is effective. If education is an effective tool to combat alcohol abuse, it can be an effective tool to combat gun abuse as well. Europe should want guns even more than America. It wasn't that long ago that Germany was blitzkrieging across borders and the citizens were defenseless. It would have never worked in America because as soon as the Germans drove over the border, millions of American civilians (not soldiers) would be pulling out their family rifles and gunning down the German soldiers from every side.