5 ms·

> In addition, the passengers didn't even try the emergency door release levers The no-power mechanical release cable is hidden and not even properly documente

by zkms 10y ago

> In addition, the passengers didn't even try the emergency door release levers The no-power mechanical release cable is hidden and not even properly documented. A reasonable person who has not pored over every page of the instruction manual or the first responder guide would not think to try to remove the speaker grill when they're sitting on a battery fire. It's absolutely unreasonable to expect every single person who sits in the back seat to have been given a bloody briefing of "oh, in case the 12V power dies, the door won't work, you'll have to dismantle the car a bit to pull an override cable".

eridius 10y ago
> and not even properly documented. It's documented in the physical owner's manual, and in the emergency guide. It appears the only place it isn't documented is the online manual. > A reasonable person who has not pored over every page of the instruction manual or the first responder guide would not think to try to remove the speaker grill when they're sitting on a battery fire. No, but a reasonable person who buys a car like this should at least skim the manual once, looking for info on what to do in an emergency, precisely because in an emergency they won't have time to look up such info.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Emergency measures should never be hidden. That's just plain stupid on the part of the designer. The best spot for such a handle would be on the fucking door, and in bright red.
  - eridius 10y ago
    If you make it ugly, people aren't going to buy it.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      If you make it invisible people will get killed. This is one of those situations where function should definitely trump form, if your door mechanism needs an emergency release that release handle should be exposed and marked. That's pretty simple. The reasons for which are plentiful but in order of coming to mind: - it need not be the owner that's trapped - it could be a child that can't read yet - what's in the manual will be forgotten during an accident panic is a very bad time to remember complex details - you don't have time to think in an emergency situation And so on. All in all a beautiful death trap is not something people would buy either.
      - eridius 10y ago
        You're arguing against human nature. When someone pays a lot of money for a luxury car, they want it to look good. Having a big red handle visible inside the car would be a huge turnoff for people.
        jacquesm 10y ago
        If you design car doors so they no longer work the way people expect it you have to compensate for that somehow so that in an emergency situation if the door is not blocked or otherwise deformed so that it could still be opened it can be opened without instruction or delay. What ever method you choose should satisfy those conditions. If you can't come up with a viable alternative to big red handle (which is the accepted norm for emergency only door openers the world over) then maybe you simply should let go of your fancy door design. But other manufacturers than Tesla seem to be able to make this work just fine so at a guess I'm not arguing against human nature, merely against you. Note that making a car door work has been a solved problem since roughly the 1930's.
        eridius 10y ago
        > Note that making a car door work has been a solved problem since roughly the 1930's. This is not the first time someone's been unable to open a car door after a high-speed crash. In fact, nothing in the article even tells us whether the emergency open handle would have worked, or whether the problem was the car frame was deformed enough to jam the doors.
        jacquesm 10y ago
        How many times will you move the goalposts in a single conversation? Nothing in the article relates whether or not they ate ice-cream either. But the fact is that the door did not open because of power failure and that the handle was placed in such a way that a mechanical option to open the door was obscured from the passengers. if the handle would have been exposed and the door would have been jammed you would have a point. But hiding behind information that doesn't matter either way is a pretty weak defense. I'll leave it at that. Hopefully if and when the time comes and you find yourself in an accident in a model X you and your passengers will remember to look behind the speaker grille.
- zkms 10y ago
  > No, but a reasonable person who buys a car like this should at least skim the manual once, looking for info on what to do in an emergency, precisely because in an emergency they won't have time to look up such info. The door release cable is not even denoted as an emergency procedure so it is quite possible that they could have "skim[mmed] the manual once" and missed it.
- mikestew 10y ago
  but a reasonable person who buys a car like this should at least skim the manual once All information from which will be promptly forgotten once the car catches fire. Clearly label it on the actual mechanism, there's plenty of prior art should Tesla need help with this.

by zkms 10y ago

eridius 10y ago

> and not even properly documented. It's documented in the physical owner's manual, and in the emergency guide. It appears the only place it isn't documented is the online manual. > A reasonable person who has not pored over every page of the instruction manual or the first responder guide would not think to try to remove the speaker grill when they're sitting on a battery fire. No, but a reasonable person who buys a car like this should at least skim the manual once, looking for info on what to do in an emergency, precisely because in an emergency they won't have time to look up such info.

jacquesm 10y ago
Emergency measures should never be hidden. That's just plain stupid on the part of the designer. The best spot for such a handle would be on the fucking door, and in bright red.
- eridius 10y ago
  If you make it ugly, people aren't going to buy it.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    If you make it invisible people will get killed. This is one of those situations where function should definitely trump form, if your door mechanism needs an emergency release that release handle should be exposed and marked. That's pretty simple. The reasons for which are plentiful but in order of coming to mind: - it need not be the owner that's trapped - it could be a child that can't read yet - what's in the manual will be forgotten during an accident panic is a very bad time to remember complex details - you don't have time to think in an emergency situation And so on. All in all a beautiful death trap is not something people would buy either.
    - eridius 10y ago
      You're arguing against human nature. When someone pays a lot of money for a luxury car, they want it to look good. Having a big red handle visible inside the car would be a huge turnoff for people.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        If you design car doors so they no longer work the way people expect it you have to compensate for that somehow so that in an emergency situation if the door is not blocked or otherwise deformed so that it could still be opened it can be opened without instruction or delay. What ever method you choose should satisfy those conditions. If you can't come up with a viable alternative to big red handle (which is the accepted norm for emergency only door openers the world over) then maybe you simply should let go of your fancy door design. But other manufacturers than Tesla seem to be able to make this work just fine so at a guess I'm not arguing against human nature, merely against you. Note that making a car door work has been a solved problem since roughly the 1930's.
        eridius 10y ago
        > Note that making a car door work has been a solved problem since roughly the 1930's. This is not the first time someone's been unable to open a car door after a high-speed crash. In fact, nothing in the article even tells us whether the emergency open handle would have worked, or whether the problem was the car frame was deformed enough to jam the doors.
        jacquesm 10y ago
        How many times will you move the goalposts in a single conversation? Nothing in the article relates whether or not they ate ice-cream either. But the fact is that the door did not open because of power failure and that the handle was placed in such a way that a mechanical option to open the door was obscured from the passengers. if the handle would have been exposed and the door would have been jammed you would have a point. But hiding behind information that doesn't matter either way is a pretty weak defense. I'll leave it at that. Hopefully if and when the time comes and you find yourself in an accident in a model X you and your passengers will remember to look behind the speaker grille.
zkms 10y ago
> No, but a reasonable person who buys a car like this should at least skim the manual once, looking for info on what to do in an emergency, precisely because in an emergency they won't have time to look up such info. The door release cable is not even denoted as an emergency procedure so it is quite possible that they could have "skim[mmed] the manual once" and missed it.
mikestew 10y ago
but a reasonable person who buys a car like this should at least skim the manual once All information from which will be promptly forgotten once the car catches fire. Clearly label it on the actual mechanism, there's plenty of prior art should Tesla need help with this.