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For my apps, I used the affiliate program to get back some of the Apple tax. So from my perspective, this is just the latest in a long line of developer hostil

For my apps, I used the affiliate program to get back some of the Apple tax. So from my perspective, this is just the latest in a long line of developer hostile developments from Apple. Sidenote- I tried deploying an app to testers on Testflight for the first time, and the app was rejected. What a complete waste of time. It was rejected for not running on iPad properly and not working with ipv6. Not exactly too frickin helpful when I needed to get the app out to testers/stakeholders asap. Fortunately Tryouts.io don't want to waste my time.

matheweis 10y ago
I did the same, and since the majority of my sales were generated through my own site rather than directly on the app store, it was relatively successful too. This represents a roughly 6% cut in post-Apple revenue... on sales of our own apps. Unbelievable.
RandomInteger4 10y ago
What is the "Apple tax"?
- baldfat 10y ago
  30% and 30% for subscription for the first year and 15% after 12 months of subscription. http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-changes-app-store-revenue-split-2016-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-changes-app-store-reven... AKA Highway robbery and Google doesn't do any better. It should be in the single digits.
  - wklauss 10y ago
    > AKA Highway robbery and Google doesn't do any better. It should be in the single digits. Why single digits?
    - weaksauce 10y ago
      why almost a third of your revenue?
      - baldfat 10y ago
        Which for many developers is more then their own cut of an app?
        astrodust 10y ago
        It's a shit-ton more than most musicians get from a record label deal. It's also way more than you'll get shipping for XBox or PS4.
      - scarface74 10y ago
        Well, when I was actually working for a company that billed me out to clients I would have killed to get 70% of my billable rate.
    - cortesoft 10y ago
      Because a fair rate is always determined by what number base you use.
    - pdelbarba 10y ago
      Why not? They make plenty of money elsewhere and there's no value-add here aside from the storefront that you're forced to use anyway. It's basically a self-enforced monopoly.
    - baldfat 10y ago
      > Why single digits? What's is their cost? When you look at an ebook Apple makes more money then the Author of a book. Most developers don't make a profit but Apple is guaranteed a profit form each purchase. http://alltopstartups.com/2016/03/30/do-apps-still-make-money/ http://alltopstartups.com/2016/03/30/do-apps-still-make-mone... When the creator makes less then the deliver there is a problem. When the deliver makes money from purchase 1 and the developer might never see a penny after thousands of purchases there is a problem. A developer makes an app that cost her $10,000 and she must sell $14,300 to break even and not make a dime. Apple will make $4,299.
      - abakker 10y ago
        well, that's not necessarily fair. Apple has done an incredible amount of work to give devs and content creators an audience in the first place. Their rules are no different from many others. The economics of a "good business" need to take into account the delivery costs. Just because those costs are borne by a 3rd party (apple), does not mean those costs aren't real. Yes, shifting the costs more on apple would change the economics for app developers, but as long as the economics remain great for apple, they keep developing better services, devices, and platforms for devs to use (and, they give some of that away for very cheap or free).
        baldfat 10y ago
        I know quite a few App Store Developers and I don't think a single one would say that Apple does the following: > they keep developing better services, devices, and platforms for devs to use (and, they give some of that away for very cheap or free). Follow the money and Apple, Google and Valve are making a killing off the backs of creators. The cost of delivery is what 1% if that?
        CountSessine 10y ago
        Follow the money and Apple, Google and Valve are making a killing off the backs of creators. The cost of delivery is what 1% if that? Well, if the cost of delivery and maintenance of these platforms is so low and the charge to developers is so high, why not arbitrage this? Create your own trusted multi-billion hardware/software platform with expedited payment and protection from cheating, and you can cut developers a better deal!
    - SyneRyder 10y ago
      > Why single digits? Competitors to the Mac app store charge in the single digit range, whether it's Paypal or Stripe at about 2.9%, or a more full-service offering like Paddle at 5% + 50c, FastSpring at 5.9% + 95c, or Avangate at 4% - 8%.
      - eastWestMath 10y ago
        ...You think Paypal is a competitor to the app store?
        SyneRyder 10y ago
        To the Mac App Store, in that you can sell your software from your own website & take the payments using Paypal. Fastspring / Avangate / Paddle are better comparisons, as they also handle license/serial keys, file hosting, subscription management & tax accounting like the Mac App Store does, and have been doing so before the App Store ever existed.
    - kuschku 10y ago
      The EU just limited credit card fees to be below 0.25%. Apple and Google can have their 30%, but only if they allow third party stores to exist just equally.
  - matt4077 10y ago
    There's a somewhat fair way of adjudicating this discussion, where the truth is obviously neither "highway robbery" nor "best deal ever", and that's the Mac App store. Mac developers are free to choose distribution via the App store, or to roll their own and not pay a cent to Apple. I don't have any numbers (and I'd guess very few people do), but I'd guess that the majority of developers is still in the App store, even though there were a few high-profile defections. OTOH, the Mac app store may be <50% in total revenue because the really expensive stuff is usually distributed independently (Adobe, for example, is big enough not to need the platform). So right now I'd say most iOS developers are probably still getting a positive return on investment. Although that doesn't mean that it's a completely fair price–Apple is probably getting the lion's share of the App Store's value.
- komodo 10y ago
  Apple takes 30% of the purchase price for app sales on the app store.
  - sly010 10y ago
    Apple tax to me also means the average ~$1000/year I have to spend on replacing otherwise completely perfect Apple hardware that gets conveniently software upgraded to be too old for normal daily functions :)
    - abritinthebay 10y ago
      What on earth are you buying regularly? Several 4 year old iPhones?
      - feelix 10y ago
        If a computer costs $3000 and you save up $1000 a year to buy it, in 3 years you can buy that computer.
        eropple 10y ago
        I question your decision-making if you aren't doing bleeding-edge graphics programming and are replacing a $3,000 computer every three years. Three years ago was when I got my current retina MBP, I do stuff on it that's considerably more demanding than iOS app development, and I expect to replace this in 2020.
        adrianm 10y ago
        Alternatively, they are sane enthusiasts who enjoy using and taxing state of the art hardware. Or they are gamers. Or both. I could say I question the decision making of someone (especially a hacker) who doesn't upgrade their laptop every six years. But that would be rude.
        10y ago
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
wklauss 10y ago
>For my apps, I used the affiliate program to get back some of the Apple tax. >So from my perspective, this is just the latest in a long line of developer hostile developments from Apple. I know this is a common practice but it's not the intended use of the tool and therefore I think it's quite a stretch to say this is a "hostile development towards developers". I understand the frustration, though.
- JohnTHaller 10y ago
  It's a logical practice as well. You're the one generating the user's interest and directing them to the app in the store to get the sale. So, it would be logical that you'd want to pay less of the Apple tax.
- ductionist 10y ago
  I think it actually is (one of) the intended uses of this tool. I've been told directly by the managers of this program at Apple that it's meant to reward app developers for driving traffic to the App Store.
  - Tanegashima 10y ago
    What's the point? They don't want you to come from a web page that you arrived from after a google search or a facebook ad. They want you to go to the AppStore app first. And search there and see advertisements there.
    - m1sta_ 10y ago
      They want people to be engaged.
dirtae 10y ago
It would be amazing if this were a precursor to the "Apple tax" being lowered. If Apple is going to lower their 30% take on app sales, then perhaps that requires lowering these affiliate commissions. I know this is probably wishful thinking, but as the author of this[1], I will hold out hope... [1] http://blog.anylistapp.com/2015/02/open-letter-to-tim-cook-regarding-app-store-revenue-split/ http://blog.anylistapp.com/2015/02/open-letter-to-tim-cook-r...
treehau5 10y ago
I admire you app store developers -- I really do. To me Apple feels like working for a restaurant -- always finding out a way to pass on more costs down to the waiters and waitresses and support staff, and reaping more of the profits themselves.

matheweis 10y ago

I did the same, and since the majority of my sales were generated through my own site rather than directly on the app store, it was relatively successful too. This represents a roughly 6% cut in post-Apple revenue... on sales of our own apps. Unbelievable.

RandomInteger4 10y ago

What is the "Apple tax"?

baldfat 10y ago
30% and 30% for subscription for the first year and 15% after 12 months of subscription. http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-changes-app-store-revenue-split-2016-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-changes-app-store-reven... AKA Highway robbery and Google doesn't do any better. It should be in the single digits.
- wklauss 10y ago
  > AKA Highway robbery and Google doesn't do any better. It should be in the single digits. Why single digits?
  - weaksauce 10y ago
    why almost a third of your revenue?
    - baldfat 10y ago
      Which for many developers is more then their own cut of an app?
      - astrodust 10y ago
        It's a shit-ton more than most musicians get from a record label deal. It's also way more than you'll get shipping for XBox or PS4.
    - scarface74 10y ago
      Well, when I was actually working for a company that billed me out to clients I would have killed to get 70% of my billable rate.
  - cortesoft 10y ago
    Because a fair rate is always determined by what number base you use.
  - pdelbarba 10y ago
    Why not? They make plenty of money elsewhere and there's no value-add here aside from the storefront that you're forced to use anyway. It's basically a self-enforced monopoly.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    > Why single digits? What's is their cost? When you look at an ebook Apple makes more money then the Author of a book. Most developers don't make a profit but Apple is guaranteed a profit form each purchase. http://alltopstartups.com/2016/03/30/do-apps-still-make-money/ http://alltopstartups.com/2016/03/30/do-apps-still-make-mone... When the creator makes less then the deliver there is a problem. When the deliver makes money from purchase 1 and the developer might never see a penny after thousands of purchases there is a problem. A developer makes an app that cost her $10,000 and she must sell $14,300 to break even and not make a dime. Apple will make $4,299.
    - abakker 10y ago
      well, that's not necessarily fair. Apple has done an incredible amount of work to give devs and content creators an audience in the first place. Their rules are no different from many others. The economics of a "good business" need to take into account the delivery costs. Just because those costs are borne by a 3rd party (apple), does not mean those costs aren't real. Yes, shifting the costs more on apple would change the economics for app developers, but as long as the economics remain great for apple, they keep developing better services, devices, and platforms for devs to use (and, they give some of that away for very cheap or free).
      - baldfat 10y ago
        I know quite a few App Store Developers and I don't think a single one would say that Apple does the following: > they keep developing better services, devices, and platforms for devs to use (and, they give some of that away for very cheap or free). Follow the money and Apple, Google and Valve are making a killing off the backs of creators. The cost of delivery is what 1% if that?
        CountSessine 10y ago
        Follow the money and Apple, Google and Valve are making a killing off the backs of creators. The cost of delivery is what 1% if that? Well, if the cost of delivery and maintenance of these platforms is so low and the charge to developers is so high, why not arbitrage this? Create your own trusted multi-billion hardware/software platform with expedited payment and protection from cheating, and you can cut developers a better deal!
  - SyneRyder 10y ago
    > Why single digits? Competitors to the Mac app store charge in the single digit range, whether it's Paypal or Stripe at about 2.9%, or a more full-service offering like Paddle at 5% + 50c, FastSpring at 5.9% + 95c, or Avangate at 4% - 8%.
    - eastWestMath 10y ago
      ...You think Paypal is a competitor to the app store?
      - SyneRyder 10y ago
        To the Mac App Store, in that you can sell your software from your own website & take the payments using Paypal. Fastspring / Avangate / Paddle are better comparisons, as they also handle license/serial keys, file hosting, subscription management & tax accounting like the Mac App Store does, and have been doing so before the App Store ever existed.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    The EU just limited credit card fees to be below 0.25%. Apple and Google can have their 30%, but only if they allow third party stores to exist just equally.
- matt4077 10y ago
  There's a somewhat fair way of adjudicating this discussion, where the truth is obviously neither "highway robbery" nor "best deal ever", and that's the Mac App store. Mac developers are free to choose distribution via the App store, or to roll their own and not pay a cent to Apple. I don't have any numbers (and I'd guess very few people do), but I'd guess that the majority of developers is still in the App store, even though there were a few high-profile defections. OTOH, the Mac app store may be <50% in total revenue because the really expensive stuff is usually distributed independently (Adobe, for example, is big enough not to need the platform). So right now I'd say most iOS developers are probably still getting a positive return on investment. Although that doesn't mean that it's a completely fair price–Apple is probably getting the lion's share of the App Store's value.
komodo 10y ago
Apple takes 30% of the purchase price for app sales on the app store.
- sly010 10y ago
  Apple tax to me also means the average ~$1000/year I have to spend on replacing otherwise completely perfect Apple hardware that gets conveniently software upgraded to be too old for normal daily functions :)
  - abritinthebay 10y ago
    What on earth are you buying regularly? Several 4 year old iPhones?
    - feelix 10y ago
      If a computer costs $3000 and you save up $1000 a year to buy it, in 3 years you can buy that computer.
      - eropple 10y ago
        I question your decision-making if you aren't doing bleeding-edge graphics programming and are replacing a $3,000 computer every three years. Three years ago was when I got my current retina MBP, I do stuff on it that's considerably more demanding than iOS app development, and I expect to replace this in 2020.
        adrianm 10y ago
        Alternatively, they are sane enthusiasts who enjoy using and taxing state of the art hardware. Or they are gamers. Or both. I could say I question the decision making of someone (especially a hacker) who doesn't upgrade their laptop every six years. But that would be rude.
        10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

wklauss 10y ago

>For my apps, I used the affiliate program to get back some of the Apple tax. >So from my perspective, this is just the latest in a long line of developer hostile developments from Apple. I know this is a common practice but it's not the intended use of the tool and therefore I think it's quite a stretch to say this is a "hostile development towards developers". I understand the frustration, though.

JohnTHaller 10y ago
It's a logical practice as well. You're the one generating the user's interest and directing them to the app in the store to get the sale. So, it would be logical that you'd want to pay less of the Apple tax.
ductionist 10y ago
I think it actually is (one of) the intended uses of this tool. I've been told directly by the managers of this program at Apple that it's meant to reward app developers for driving traffic to the App Store.
- Tanegashima 10y ago
  What's the point? They don't want you to come from a web page that you arrived from after a google search or a facebook ad. They want you to go to the AppStore app first. And search there and see advertisements there.
  - m1sta_ 10y ago
    They want people to be engaged.

dirtae 10y ago

It would be amazing if this were a precursor to the "Apple tax" being lowered. If Apple is going to lower their 30% take on app sales, then perhaps that requires lowering these affiliate commissions. I know this is probably wishful thinking, but as the author of this[1], I will hold out hope... [1] http://blog.anylistapp.com/2015/02/open-letter-to-tim-cook-regarding-app-store-revenue-split/ http://blog.anylistapp.com/2015/02/open-letter-to-tim-cook-r...

treehau5 10y ago

I admire you app store developers -- I really do. To me Apple feels like working for a restaurant -- always finding out a way to pass on more costs down to the waiters and waitresses and support staff, and reaping more of the profits themselves.