4 ms·

I just learned which vendor I'll be avoiding. Key cutting is exactly the job I least want ex-convicts to do. It is low-skill, so anyone can do it, but high-ris

by rdl 10y ago

I just learned which vendor I'll be avoiding. Key cutting is exactly the job I least want ex-convicts to do. It is low-skill, so anyone can do it, but high-risk (you are literally giving your keys to the person, asking them to convert them to a numeric code, easily retained, and produce copies...) (Obviously, I'd prefer an in-house locksmith or resettable locking system, but instead, I use a vendor I've known for 20+ years who uses PGP to authenticate orders.)

anigbrowl 10y ago
You're either assuming the person cutting your keys also knows your address, or that burglars are in the habit of walking round with a bunch of keys and systematically trying them all in the front door looks of every house that looks like it might be worth stealing from. I'm not sure what is the point of mentioning that your physical security vendor uses PGP other than signaling how awesome your security practices are, but I guess since you're a vendor of security services you have a good reason to advertise that. No doubt you have your reasons for feeling prejudiced about ex-convicts, and as a security professional you can leverage rational paranoia into cash. However, it would be interesting to hear what sort of jobs you do want ex-convicts to do. It's easy to think of security reasons to disqualify people from any given job, not so easy to furnish people with legit alternative opportunities.
- rdl 10y ago
  I'd disqualify convicts (meaning felony, and in this case, particularly financial or access-related crimes) from physical security custodian roles (such as locksmithing), probably child care, probably financial stewardship. If it's a person with a drug crime history, probably nothing in the pharmacy chain of custody. Nothing in law enforcement. There are exceptions, and famously if someone's going to be providing quality information based on a "nefarious past" like Frank Abagnale, sure, but for a low-level clerk position, eliminating risk by barring 5% of the population from 5% of the jobs (not even particularly good ones) is a reasonable tradeoff. I'd trust an ex-con with finances of the cash register variety, but not unsupervised and unaccounted-for access to large amounts of cash. (It's not something you'd want to have to trust an $8-12/hr employee with in general, but in some cases it's unavoidable.) If someone had higher skills (say, an auto mechanic who was also convicted of a serious felony), the risk/reward of having that person working as an auto mechanic is probably a lot better than a low skill person taking a key cutter job vs. another form of retail job.
daxelrod 10y ago
What's the weakest link in your case? How resistant are your locks to picking? Can someone just smash a window or drill the lock?
- rdl 10y ago
  Actually, with my locks, the weakest would be someone getting a key. Second weakest would be either the $400 bolt cutters, or very noisy actions with angle grinders. (There's also the forced/destructive vs. covert vs. surreptitious entry issue. Someone entering without leaving a trace and without making a sound is far more concerning than someone breaking out an angle grinder and grinding away for 5 minutes on video with an alarm going off.)
  - joncrocks 10y ago
    I think I agree that if your threat model is targeted, pre-meditated entry then going with a company that has never had any problem may be the way to go. I suspect that you've never visited a Timpson's, which are your general, run of the mill high-street key-cutter. You walk in with your keys, ask them to make copies, they cut them while you wait (and watch if you want), you walk out with your new keys. For most people that's pretty much fine whoever is cutting the keys as they don't know where you live. If you're paranoid and/or have threat models that include lots of things that your average man on the street doesn't have to worry about, then you should be cutting the keys yourself.
douche 10y ago
> asking them to convert them to a numeric code, easily retained, and produce copies... This must be different from any key-cutting system I've ever seen. Any time I've ever gotten keys cut, the machine is setup with a jig, so they put the original on one side, and the blank on the other, and you trace the original against the guide, while the blank gets ground to match. I suppose they could cut an extra, but it'd be hard to do when I'm standing right there watching them.
- rdl 10y ago
  Higher end key systems generally involve "code cutting" for making good duplicates, not merely copying.

by rdl 10y ago

anigbrowl 10y ago

You're either assuming the person cutting your keys also knows your address, or that burglars are in the habit of walking round with a bunch of keys and systematically trying them all in the front door looks of every house that looks like it might be worth stealing from. I'm not sure what is the point of mentioning that your physical security vendor uses PGP other than signaling how awesome your security practices are, but I guess since you're a vendor of security services you have a good reason to advertise that. No doubt you have your reasons for feeling prejudiced about ex-convicts, and as a security professional you can leverage rational paranoia into cash. However, it would be interesting to hear what sort of jobs you do want ex-convicts to do. It's easy to think of security reasons to disqualify people from any given job, not so easy to furnish people with legit alternative opportunities.

rdl 10y ago
I'd disqualify convicts (meaning felony, and in this case, particularly financial or access-related crimes) from physical security custodian roles (such as locksmithing), probably child care, probably financial stewardship. If it's a person with a drug crime history, probably nothing in the pharmacy chain of custody. Nothing in law enforcement. There are exceptions, and famously if someone's going to be providing quality information based on a "nefarious past" like Frank Abagnale, sure, but for a low-level clerk position, eliminating risk by barring 5% of the population from 5% of the jobs (not even particularly good ones) is a reasonable tradeoff. I'd trust an ex-con with finances of the cash register variety, but not unsupervised and unaccounted-for access to large amounts of cash. (It's not something you'd want to have to trust an $8-12/hr employee with in general, but in some cases it's unavoidable.) If someone had higher skills (say, an auto mechanic who was also convicted of a serious felony), the risk/reward of having that person working as an auto mechanic is probably a lot better than a low skill person taking a key cutter job vs. another form of retail job.

daxelrod 10y ago

What's the weakest link in your case? How resistant are your locks to picking? Can someone just smash a window or drill the lock?

rdl 10y ago
Actually, with my locks, the weakest would be someone getting a key. Second weakest would be either the $400 bolt cutters, or very noisy actions with angle grinders. (There's also the forced/destructive vs. covert vs. surreptitious entry issue. Someone entering without leaving a trace and without making a sound is far more concerning than someone breaking out an angle grinder and grinding away for 5 minutes on video with an alarm going off.)
- joncrocks 10y ago
  I think I agree that if your threat model is targeted, pre-meditated entry then going with a company that has never had any problem may be the way to go. I suspect that you've never visited a Timpson's, which are your general, run of the mill high-street key-cutter. You walk in with your keys, ask them to make copies, they cut them while you wait (and watch if you want), you walk out with your new keys. For most people that's pretty much fine whoever is cutting the keys as they don't know where you live. If you're paranoid and/or have threat models that include lots of things that your average man on the street doesn't have to worry about, then you should be cutting the keys yourself.

douche 10y ago

> asking them to convert them to a numeric code, easily retained, and produce copies... This must be different from any key-cutting system I've ever seen. Any time I've ever gotten keys cut, the machine is setup with a jig, so they put the original on one side, and the blank on the other, and you trace the original against the guide, while the blank gets ground to match. I suppose they could cut an extra, but it'd be hard to do when I'm standing right there watching them.

rdl 10y ago
Higher end key systems generally involve "code cutting" for making good duplicates, not merely copying.